Not So Good Guy List

[DL8698]

You bought this in slightly good condition from somebody at $100, flew and crashed, as a result the fuselage almost broke into half, causing a big cracked on the fuselage and epoxy it to hide the crack, beside that the crash also caused the nose to be out of shape as well. After that you started to market it online only providing the info on the nose was out of shape, and left out the missing info on the fuselage has ever cracked before. You could have easily provided the important info that you flew and broke the fuselage as well but you did not.

Larry, on second reading of your post, it appears that what got your goat was that MC did not tell you that he flew the plane and crashed it. I believe you offered a price for the plane based on the condition of the plane as you saw it. Whether MC actually told he flew and crashed it, is not material.

Now i just feel disappointed i let go a bird to him for so cheap

Merrill, if you think the plane was worth so much more than what you sold to Larry for, why on earth did you sell it to him, only to **** him on DH forum subsequently? Don't sell, lah! Surely, you could wait a while for someone else to offer a higher price? Or perhaps, Larry's offer was the highest you got?

[Raven]

You bought this in slightly good condition from somebody at $100, flew and crashed, as a result the fuselage almost broke into half, causing a big cracked on the fuselage and epoxy it to hide the crack, beside that the crash also caused the nose to be out of shape as well. After that you started to market it online only providing the info on the nose was out of shape, and left out the missing info on the fuselage has ever cracked before. You could have easily provided the important info that you flew and broke the fuselage as well but you did not. Furthermore instead of telling the truth, you have chose to tell lie, when i asked you why there's a big crack near the exhaust, you said it was like that when you bought it. Come on. This is not the way of doing business. You are dishonest and breached the code of ethics. Luckily you are not a boss of a hobby shop if not i can hardly imagine how many consumer has chopped. You should be gladful that i drove all the way to Holland road to buy a cracked fuselage plane from you at $110 instead of $50 lesser than your posted price which is $120. In the future please do your mathematic first before typing any figure, if you still do not know how to calculate, just ask around, maybe someone will help you. Please be a gentleman. PLease don't lie. I may be a newbie but I'm not stupid. Please stop telling lie. Seriously what make you think that i did not do research and homework about ducted plane. I know that ducted plane is actually meant for advanced flyer and not newbie. But do you know that some people has the habit of collecting R/C plane and heli model without even flying it. Please don't cook up story which is not truth again. Ask your conscience before you comment anything online that will tarnish one's reputation. Bear in mind.... Do soul-searching for goodness sake. Newbie consumer please bring along a senior R/C pilot if you gonna buy anything from MerrillChia.

Ok... i get it. Buy $100 den wanna sell $120 after crash
I dont know if there is any truth to this but if it is true, its even lower den low baller. Low baller only bargain untill shit a$$ low price but only for their own use. Buy, break and sell higher den buy price? I cant find a word to describe except "Lower den Low Baller" tsk tsk tsk...

[buckman]

Ok... i get it. Buy $100 den wanna sell $120 after crash
I dont know if there is any truth to this but if it is true, its even lower den low baller. Low baller only bargain untill shit a$$ low price but only for their own use. Buy, break and sell higher den buy price? I cant find a word to describe except "Lower den Low Baller" tsk tsk tsk...

I think the point to note here is that even if MC had the plane for $10 third-hand, got it free or as a gift, it's up to MC as to how much he wants to sell it for; or how much the plane would be worth at that point in time and its condition. And it would be the Buyer's responsibility to know what he's buying or buying into, even if the seller intentionally hides information of the product. If the buyer has no experience in making QC checks on second-hand planes that he's buying, then he should get someone with experience to be present for help. If not, just except the fact that it could end up with a lemon and deal with it. That's the world of a re-sale market.

[MerrillChia]

I think the point to note here is that even if MC had the plane for $10 third-hand, got it free or as a gift, it's up to MC as to how much he wants to sell it for; or how much the plane would be worth at that point in time and its condition. And it would be the Buyer's responsibility to know what he's buying or buying into, even if the seller intentionally hides information of the product. If the buyer has no experience in making QC checks on second-hand planes that he's buying, then he should get someone with experience to be present for help. If not, just except the fact that it could end up with a lemon and deal with it. That's the world of a re-sale market.

Yes, i could have bought a particular product which was worth quite a lot more at a very cheap price. Obviously i bought it at an extremely cheap price. However, after that purchase is made, it is up to me to sell at a price i see fit according to the market rate. An example. I buy an item worth $500 from a person that wishes to simply discard it and sells it to me for almost nothing say $10. I use it and i am unhappy about it. Do i have to sell it for say $5? Although its market value is actually still at least $300?
Larry, I did not cover up that i broke the fuse. I told you that the particular area had broke and i fixed it up and re-enforced it further because it was structurally very weak due to its design of gaps between the foam. I want to also stress that you are not the only buyer and obviously i had placed a price which was obviously under the market rate (This does not concern how i got the product as explained above). I quote from my post from xxxxxx

"Hey dude,

Just asking, are you really selling the intruder at 120? If you are mind holding it for me till end of month?

cheers!

xxxxxx"

As you can tell.. All i have to say to you is, its just your luck. I offered people who were unhappy with their buy a buy back if its in the same condition i sold to them. I tell you now that i don't for you, because frankly i don't like your approach as i mentioned infront of your face.

DL8698 i agree with you. I actually was a little disappointed that i did. The truth is that i need cash for my other projects. so a little lower price here and there wouldn't hurt especially if it was a bro that really wanted the plane. His final offer was not that far away from my advertised price and he was self collecting, that's why i let it go to him. Well, he was at my gate and i wouldn't say no to someone who travelled the distance already. It only became subsequently apparent that he didn't know his stuff after he gave me the cash and i had to teach him things from the basics, including how to identify puffed battery and a lot more. I actually don't mind doing this to someone who approaches me without the initial attitude.


Anyway, I just want to warn others of his "Counter price" regime. Have nothing against him. Only hate the extremely ridiculous price offers despite a price tag. I can't blame him for trying to get his money worth either la so good for you. I you got being able to do that "counter price" regime at our LHS and actually pay less.

If anybody has something against my pricing, let me know. I could make a quick buck here by luck, but if you are buying it, it is obviously worth the money even at that price. I am not a vendor, i just sell the stuff i don't want at the market rate or lower. My NIB planes all make a lost, if you can find cheaper, i already said, i will give you even cheaper than that. As for used equipment, they are all extremely cheap prices. Buy them only if you see them fit. I don't deny viewing at all. If you see that it is alright, take it, otherwise no harm done.

To Larry, sell the plane for what you think its worth. Check the market rate, look at the condition, look at the retail price. And sell accordingly. I don't think that it is wrong. Enlighten me why it is ethically wrong? Sellers want to get back as much as buyers want a bang for their buck. Come to an agreed price and sell, its simple. Don't complain after that. It is a 2nd hand product. Nobody is stopping you for buying brand new. I have said my peace. Thanks for reading.

[DL8698]

because frankly i don't like your approach as i mentioned infront of your face.

I think I finally get what it's all about. I could not initially understand why Merrill was so upset with Larry in spite of the fact that MC got just 10$ less than the advertised price.

It looks like MC is angry with Larry for making an offer of about 50$ below the advertised price. (I sincerely hope I have read the situation correctly.)

Merrill, if you want to sell in Singapore, you probably know that Singaporeans are well known "Bargainers". First thing the buyer does is "chop! Chop!" the price and see what is the seller's reaction. So hope you don't remain too upset just because Larry did what comes naturally for most Singaporean shoppers. He probably just bruised your pride a bit ("What! how dare you think my beautiful plane is only worth so little!") But never mind, lah, after all you did get very nearly the price you wanted, after all the haggling.

I think this is just a big huge misunderstanding between the two of you.

In fact, I too never knew we who are thinking of buying are not allowed to haggle, unless the seller specified "fixed price".

[LarryLim]

Initially I'm ok with the plane which i bought from M.C until.........

Initially I'm ok with the plane which i bought from M.C until.........i read the stupid rubbish post about me. That's really drive me mad. I'm a person who like to bargain, ask those shops skyhobbies and jethobby whom i always patronise. Don't forget that I'm a agent, i bargain and negotiate with buyer and seller in order to close a deal. There's a chinese phrase say 'the bad one always complain first'. I'm not the one who complain first, he did. My character is like that if you don't bite me, i will not bite you. Despite the cracked on the fuselage, i still purchased from him. M.C could have rejected me if he thinks that the plane worth much more. I don't like his dishonest and backstabbing attitude 'Now i just feel disappointed i let go a bird to him for so cheap and can tell he doesn't know the value of products.. I think the plane i sold to him will very soon be thrashed from what he has showed me.. I think someone should educate him and teach him to fly tractor planes before flying EDF's... the reasons he gave were so i just got a little after selling the plane to him.. Larry, if you are reading this. Please take note that though you mean no harm in under quoting peoples already super low prices, it is insulting to further reduce the prices by a ridiculous amount.. not talking about 10-20bucks.. your quotes are close to $50 less than already dirt prices.. honestly, i want to tell you i rather give the plane to someone who will be able to fly it than to sell it to you.

[LarryLim]

If he wants to give it to those peoples who can fly, then don't sell.

If M.C wants to give it to those peoples who can fly, then don't sell. Why sold it to me and cursed that i will trash the plane. That's very bad of him. There's a phrase i always say 'Sell or buy something with an open heart and don't regret after that, if you feel regret later, just treat it as a valuable lesson in your life, so next time you won't make the same mistake again'. I don't like his childish and sarcastic attitude like 'honestly, i want to tell you i rather give the plane to someone who will be able to fly it than to sell it to you.

[MerrillChia]

Well Larry, as i said before, as far as i don't want to let it go, you travelled to my place and i didn't want to disappoint you. If you really wanted it, you take it, otherwise i wouldn't bother (I already told you when you were at my gate). I myself hate going all the way to someplace only to be told that i don't want to sell you the product. That is ethically wrong. I am warning others about your bargaining regime amongst all things and not anything else.
Remember that despite me not liking your attitude i gave you pointers on how to put the bird in the air. I even still taught you how to identify bloating in batteries and advised you on amp draw of a motor setup.
After which when i told you i didn't like how you bargain and how it is irritating at the market place to chop prices as if they never existed is when your reason's you gave angered me. I then decided to warn others of your ethics.
The reason why he said he chopped my price is because he said, he saw that is was "EPS foam and foam is very cheap what", to me this statement is a statement welcoming a whole new hole of problems. The reason why i said he doesn't know the value of things is simple.
Anyway, I have a lot of happy buyers and sellers who are very nice people who are happy with what they get. I don't get the "bite me bite back" thing, but for you. No matter how pissed i was, do note that i taught you many things and you did take up 1hr of my time teaching the things i didn't need to.
Anyway, despite all this, i hope you get the bird flying.. Haven't heard of anybody in SG getting this bird up and flying.
Have a nice day!

Cheers!
MerrillChia

[Bee_Flower]

I think I finally get what it's all about. I could not initially understand why Merrill was so upset with Larry in spite of the fact that MC got just 10$ less than the advertised price.

It looks like MC is angry with Larry for making an offer of about 50$ below the advertised price. (I sincerely hope I have read the situation correctly.)

Merrill, if you want to sell in Singapore, you probably know that Singaporeans are well known "Bargainers". First thing the buyer does is "chop! Chop!" the price and see what is the seller's reaction. So hope you don't remain too upset just because Larry did what comes naturally for most Singaporean shoppers. He probably just bruised your pride a bit ("What! how dare you think my beautiful plane is only worth so little!") But never mind, lah, after all you did get very nearly the price you wanted, after all the haggling.

I think this is just a big huge misunderstanding between the two of you.

In fact, I too never knew we who are thinking of buying are not allowed to haggle, unless the seller specified "fixed price".

Agree In a market place, it is natural for buyers to bargain. Nothing wrong with bargaining and there is no real limit as to how much a buyer can offer.

Unless the seller specify clearly what is the lowest price, I feel buyers can offer whatever amount he/she thinks he/she wants to pay for the item. If seller think price offered is too low, ignore lor.... whats the big problem?

I also ignore low offers that I received. I think simple; if buyer offer too low, I just ignore. I don't get angry because I think buyer has his/her own reason for doing so. Who don want to save more $$$$$$?????

Anyway, it is a free market. Free to offer & free to reject...

[DL8698]

Merrill, Larry, I hope you two don't mind I seem to be speaking on behalf of both of you to the other party. Both of you have reasons to be angry and angry men at times don't think straight and say things they inwardly regret later.

Well Larry, as i said before, as far as i don't want to let it go, you travelled to my place and i didn't want to disappoint you. If you really wanted it, you take it, otherwise i wouldn't bother (I already told you when you were at my gate). I myself hate going all the way to someplace only to be told that i don't want to sell you the product. That is ethically wrong[COLOR=DarkRed].

This is not necessarily true. To be fair to the seller, it is alright for the seller to reject a price being offered that he feels is below the fair value of the product he wants to sell. No need for either buyer or seller to get angry. That's what price negotiation is all about. The buyer explains why he thinks the product is overpriced, the seller tells his reasons why he thinks his selling price is reasonable.

he doesn't know the value of things is simple.

Larry is a newbie, remember? He probably, like you say doesn't know the value of things. Well, teach him! No need for anger. He probably doesn't realise the price he pays is not for the foam as such (foam is dirt cheap, no, cheaper than dirt, can be found thrown about everywhere). I don't think he meant to insult you in any way, or to imply you are trying to cheat him.
Just explain, "We pay for the time, effort and perhaps even research that the maker of the plane had expended to make the beautiful plane which flies so marvelously that he sees now lying in front of his eyes. That's what cause the price of this mere hunk of foam to be so expensive". I think any reasonable human being can understand this.

Remember that despite me not liking your attitude i gave you pointers on how to put the bird in the air. I even still taught you how to identify bloating in batteries and advised you on amp draw of a motor setup.

That's the spirit, Merrill!

After which when i told you i didn't like how you bargain and how it is irritating at the market place to chop prices as if they never existed is when your reason's you gave angered me. I then decided to warn others of your ethics.

Well, you got angry and told him so. Why then was it necessary to "warn others"? Other sellers would probably just say "No Deal!" if Larry were to offer a ridiculously low price. NO NEED for Anger!

"bite me bite back"

Sounds like the words of an angry man, that's all!

Anyway, despite all this, i hope you get the bird flying.. Haven't heard of anybody in SG getting this bird up and flying.
Have a nice day!

Good for you, Merrill! Looks like you are cooling down. Hope Larry can do the same.

Let's all Enjoy this Great Hobby that we have chosen to pursue!

[simonwoo]

Hmm if I were Larry, and I were given the option :

1) Live with a wasted trip and maybe even a private lecture
2) Thinks he got a good deal and then later realised that it wasn't that great a deal after all, plus get a public 'shaming' without any warning...

I think my choice would be quite clear.

But then again, I also hate it when people 'lowball'. I've gone through that before, being offered $50 for an unused item which cost like $300. In such cases I don't even bother to respond.

We are all dealing with gray areas here. There is no clean cut right or wrong, just ethics and etiquette and courtesy and consideration.

Frankly, I think both sides failed on the above.

But neither are wrong

[blueangel]

I wish to warn members about a guy who had purchased items from me on 2 separate occasion !

Since i am still WAITING for his money for the purchase of my second item, I shall not disclose his identity here, for the benefit of doubt that he PROMISED me today he WILL transfer me the money tomorrow latest. So if I don't get the money tomorrow, I will not pursue the matter but instead put down his NAME and MOBILEPHONE NUMBER here for all members to view. I hope his friends and RC kaki will take notice of this guy.

About 1 or 2 week before CNY, he SMS me and wanted to buy my Team Magic Hippo Starter. For $50. He SMS me seemingly urgent that he wanted to get it but could not meet up sooner. I see him as a honest man and gave him my promise that I could reserve the item for him unconditionally.

23rd Jan 2008,he said he would meet me at Great World City. I reached on time and waited for at least 5 minutes and getting frustrated and worried I would invite traffic police attention as i was parked at the road side, I called him up to check. He said he is on the way ! I waited for a couple of minutes and then he came and collected it. He paid on the spot.

Fine, then not long after,he SMS me again and said he wanted to get the battery and charger for the starter box. He bargain with me and asked me if I can give discount. I put up my price $50 for both charger and battery. He wanted to negotiate to $30. Fine ! I reserve for him since I had a good encounter with him previously with the Hippo starter.

But on more than a few occasion, he said he couldn't make it. So he asked his colleague ( his company's delivery man ) to collect from me at my place. I pass both item to his colleague. But I did not receive my $30 as he promise to transfer me the money later.

I SMS him my POSB account number. He received and replied that he will ask his wife to transfer me the money from her wife's account.

1 WEEK LATER ! I check my online account but did not see a credit of $30. I SMS him to check. He said his wife key in my account number wrongly... My account is 134-xxxxx-x and he told me his wife transfer it to 144-xxxxx-x ! Come on ! 134 and 144 button is too far away to make a mistake. But it is OK since I gave him the benefit of doubt again and asked him to revert.

He said POSB could revert the wrong account within 48 hours of transaction. I waited for 48 hours.. thats 2 days. !

Still no money. I SMS him again.

He said he was going Malaysia. Will be back to transfer me the money next week.

I waited.

about 1 week thereafter, I SMS him again.

He said he was in Desaru. Will be back next day to transfer me the money. I was pissed a little... but $30... I decided not to pursue.

Last friday, I SMS him again. He said he oversea and promise to transfer me the money on Tuesday.

Today I SMS him.. "TUESDAY ALREADY".. he replied that tomorrow.

So gentlemen.... It is not right to post such things about someone... but with this piss-off person, do you think I was a saint already ?

I regret to had ever sold him the $30 battery and charger because I could had sell them at $50 to someone else and don't have to spend all this problem I received !

Tomorrow I will decide to call this topic off or bring up the name and mobilephone number of this person.

As on today, I and my wife are the only 2 person who know this incident... tomorrow.. maybe not .. ..

My sales items is here

http://www.daddyhobby.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28393

[DL8698]

when people 'lowball'. I've gone through that before, being offered $50 for an unused item which cost like $300.

I hope moderator doesn't mind I deviate a bit from the topic of this thread.

I see the phrase "no lowballer" sprinkled all over the market place. What exactly does "lowballer" means?

Is it someone who goes to the seller, and offers a price slightly higher price than what the seller has already promised to sell to someone else, in the hope that seller will take the higher price and sell to him rather than to the original person seller has promised to (very long sentence, I know, bad grammar)

Or is it someone who offers a price much lower than the seller's advertised price, as implied by Simon's post here?

Up to this time when I saw this post, I had the impression it meant the former.

[simonwoo]

Hi DL8698, see some of the links below for the definition.

http://askfoxroach.katabat.com/page.aspx?ask=2.14.52.64

http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=lowball

Take note it actually refers to offering a price much lower than the fair value of the item, not the advertised asking price (which might not be fair all the time to begin with )

[DL8698]

Hi DL8698, see some of the links below for the definition.

http://askfoxroach.katabat.com/page.aspx?ask=2.14.52.64

http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=lowball

Take note it actually refers to offering a price much lower than the fair value of the item, not the advertised asking price (which might not be fair all the time to begin with )

Thanks. Read both links and understand now.