Trex 600 ESP 12s conversion!

[edmond22]

Nice flying Ed,
I see that you are doing the "180 thing" man.
Man, you got all the goodies on your heli

I may be coming over this weekend to your place and kpo.hehe.

Come Come! I been wanting to share with you sometime back kekeke. Now I just need to tweak the tail a bit more to "accept" the governor working. Seems to have a bit of interaction. Maybe need to turn down gain somemore.

[JYZoom]

Logo500 recommended 5s setup, I'm on 6s, so I've already up my Ssssss

nope....8S is best for Logo 500.

Jonathan

[edmond22]

Update - Scorpion motor shaft and pinion gear compatibility

Ok,

As a guide only for people who are dabbling in Scorpion power system for the Trex. If you are buying from Innovativedesign.com, give the pinions you see there a miss, they are a bad fit for the Trex 600 main gear. Flown to the 10th flight despite reminders from fellow flyers on the gear meshing, the power system finally gave up and to my surprise, instead of stripping the main gear (wearing out in a meshing issue manner), the main shaft of the motor broke in the air at the point when the 8mm tapers down to 5mm. Was able to auto it down on a bit of a hard landing keke

Anyhow, getting some good reference from PFW William Soh (thanks bud), he hooked me up with a supplier (Horus Hobby) of Scorpion motor in Singapore and was able to quickly buy the needed replacement shaft to fly the next day. I discovered that there are actually 2 flavours you can buy in, 4025 motor shaft 6mm and 5mm. You can actually use the 6mm end one and use back the 6mm pinion gear 14t included with the ESP for best main gear meshing. This should give the best strength and meshing performance. The next best thing to do is to buy the brand Rhino gears from Helidirect if you are on 5mm shaft still, they mesh the best out all the brands of non Align pinion.

Thumbs up to Horus Hobby for entertaining a $13.60 X 2 business at 8pm on a sat night.

Some notes on replacing shaft for 4025 motors:
- Because they are big with powerful magnets, take special care when separating the outrunner after removing the c clip. When you pull them apart, commit to it and pull them apart, do not let go and allow it to "snap" back, they will damage the magnets.
- If you do not have a ARBO press capable 1000-2000 pounds as recommended by Julien of Scorpion motor, the next best thing I found is a good hammer and patience knocking. Take more care when knocking in the new shaft. They will move slowly, just keep it straight and nice.
- Take the chance to inspect bearings, replace if necessary.

Now running the original Align gear, I am getting quieter and very slightly longer flight time too, supposed the peak amp draw on demanding moves are lesser now.

[Adrianli]

Hi,

I am running the HK4025-890KV motor + 8S1P lipo + Rhino 0.7M Pinion gear 14T on my Trex600 GF. Close to 20 flights already. No problem at all.

It is spinning at 1800rpm, four bladed.

[edmond22]

Hi,

I am running the HK4025-890KV motor + 8S1P lipo + Rhino 0.7M Pinion gear 14T on my Trex600 GF. Close to 20 flights already. No problem at all.

It is spinning at 1800rpm, four bladed.

Exactly what Chester is running too but 2 blade and he wacks the hell out of it more than I do. I think my is a combination of flying and poor gear meshing issue (wrong pinion type used to mate with main gear)

[chester]

Exactly what Chester is running too but 2 blade and he wacks the hell out of it more than I do. I think my is a combination of flying and poor gear meshing issue (wrong pinion type used to mate with main gear)

Thanks bro, but i think you got better in controlled of the heli.

As for the pinion type, i prefer the rhino 0.7M. It meshes with the main gear nicely. Till now with this set-up, i don't face any problem. Noted, i did cut 1-1.5mm on the motor shaft so when the (Rhino)pinion sits on it, the pinion won't hit the servos up-front.

Hope things work out for you......Good Luck!

[edmond22]

Thanks bro, but i think you got better in controlled of the heli.

As for the pinion type, i prefer the rhino 0.7M. It meshes with the main gear nicely. Till now with this set-up, i don't face any problem. Noted, i did cut 1-1.5mm on the motor shaft so when the (Rhino)pinion sits on it, the pinion won't hit the servos up-front.

Hope things work out for you......Good Luck!

hey bro,

Yar, I followed your recommendation and have gotten the 0.7m Rhino, 2 of them pinions with an extra Scorpion shaft 5mm as backup, just in case I wreck it again. Now still running on the 6mm using Align pinion. So far ok, they are meshing well, I am in fact getting less draw.

Now governed to 80% (about 2200 on 14t), I am charging back 2000 mah for a 5 minute flight. That is 66.6% of the 3000 mah pack. I might just be able to squeeze out another half min of flight to arrive at 75% draw. Will need to check on battery temp after testing to confirm if it is ok.

[noob]

wah

Saw yo tic tocs, that kontroniks +12S was definately worth every single penny, Gay power man.. like size 90

[edmond22]

Saw yo tic tocs, that kontroniks +12S was definately worth every single penny, Gay power man.. like size 90

Keke, it was more power than I expected... and now taming it takes some getting used to too. It is however very fun to be able to do crazy tic tocs at the end of the flight and have the battery stay within ideal temps.

This is the first model I have that can do such tic tocs with no due care, just stick bang as fast as your fingers can do it and it stays there My only worry is that the heli can't take the stress. I think it is possible to break it in the air now if you are not careful with your collective.

Anyhow, for those who are interested in the Kontronik esc. I did some observations and arrived at the following:

- Ideal setup for 12s scorpion 4205 630 on 14t now is - P gain, - I gain and - Smooth Governor

- Gyro gain needs to be increased slightly (previously 70% is now 75%), that is 40% to 50% on some tx brands. Still checking tail servo to make sure they are not overheating and overworking, still cool to touch. This current gain with the current governor settings above work best without too much gyro governor interaction.

- Kontronik governor is definitely best in the market. This is observable by measuring HS of several helicopters of different brands of ESC. Kontronik at the lowest gain settings consistently hold HS within 30-40 rpm deviation. The optimal setting I have now consistently show no observable drop or increase on RPM at all despite doing tic tocs. The manual method of measuring using a tach is simply not fast enough to observe changes in RPM. I will see if my pocket allows for a data logger to get some readings to share. Compared to other brands of esc, observable rpm changes can range from 50-150 rpm.

It seems that when power is not an issue, and the governor is allowed to do its job of maintaining absolute rpm for example, you will run into the problem of not getting good tail gyro HH performance. The torque effect is much greater (worse with high collective pitch) and a good choice of gyro tail combo like bls 251/ 9256 with Spartan for example is needed for reasonable performance. I think most who tinker with this setup will need to either mechanically or software set higher gain for the tail to have a bigger headroom on speed and travel to counter it. I will be experimenting with CRM weights to see if that helps.

[JYZoom]

Kontronik

Kontronik is definately a great ESC, I have been using it for a few years and nothing else come close to its "plug and play". It does come with a price.

I have recently been using the similar "CRM" design of the new 450 size pro tail grip on my 450 size stretch heli...it perform very very well on my VBAR. I use to have my tail gyro gain at around 60% with old tail grip, now I am running 80% gain with the new tail grip.

Jonathan

Keke, it was more power than I expected... and now taming it takes some getting used to too. It is however very fun to be able to do crazy tic tocs at the end of the flight and have the battery stay within ideal temps.

This is the first model I have that can do such tic tocs with no due care, just stick bang as fast as your fingers can do it and it stays there My only worry is that the heli can't take the stress. I think it is possible to break it in the air now if you are not careful with your collective.

Anyhow, for those who are interested in the Kontronik esc. I did some observations and arrived at the following:

- Ideal setup for 12s scorpion 4205 630 on 14t now is - P gain, - I gain and - Smooth Governor

- Gyro gain needs to be increased slightly (previously 70% is now 75%), that is 40% to 50% on some tx brands. Still checking tail servo to make sure they are not overheating and overworking, still cool to touch. This current gain with the current governor settings above work best without too much gyro governor interaction.

- Kontronik governor is definitely best in the market. This is observable by measuring HS of several helicopters of different brands of ESC. Kontronik at the lowest gain settings consistently hold HS within 30-40 rpm deviation. The optimal setting I have now consistently show no observable drop or increase on RPM at all despite doing tic tocs. The manual method of measuring using a tach is simply not fast enough to observe changes in RPM. I will see if my pocket allows for a data logger to get some readings to share. Compared to other brands of esc, observable rpm changes can range from 50-150 rpm.

It seems that when power is not an issue, and the governor is allowed to do its job of maintaining absolute rpm for example, you will run into the problem of not getting good tail gyro HH performance. The torque effect is much greater (worse with high collective pitch) and a good choice of gyro tail combo like bls 251/ 9256 with Spartan for example is needed for reasonable performance. I think most who tinker with this setup will need to either mechanically or software set higher gain for the tail to have a bigger headroom on speed and travel to counter it. I will be experimenting with CRM weights to see if that helps.

[edmond22]

Kontronik is definately a great ESC, I have been using it for a few years and nothing else come close to its "plug and play". It does come with a price.

I have recently been using the similar "CRM" design of the new 450 size pro tail grip on my 450 size stretch heli...it perform very very well on my VBAR. I use to have my tail gyro gain at around 60% with old tail grip, now I am running 80% gain with the new tail grip.

Jonathan

Wow, you mean you had higher gain now than ever? I am thinking of just halving the load of the tail using CRM and see if it helps with higher tail response performance. I found a thread on http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=105189&page=5 where a user "HEIM JOINT" is making some custom "Chinese" weight mod for a fee. I pmed him and will post the price and shipping info here later. See attached pic, there are some videos with test results on his thread too. Seems pretty good.

[JYZoom]

Edmond,

It definately work and you can feel it flying it. I bet you can use a lower spec servo and it will give you the same old tail performance. To me, the best tail upgrade even.

Jonathan

Wow, you mean you had higher gain now than ever? I am thinking of just halving the load of the tail using CRM and see if it helps with higher tail response performance. I found a thread on http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=105189&page=5 where a user "HEIM JOINT" is making some custom "Chinese" weight mod for a fee. I pmed him and will post the price and shipping info here later. See attached pic, there are some videos with test results on his thread too. Seems pretty good.

[HotDogBun]

I order few sets from Heim before. Sent to letter box. Not very cheap though, each set around $16.50SGD before shipping. Pls let me know when you getting. I need a set for .50 size helis for my Mikado

[jack_mav88]

I also interested for a set on my E550

[johndyl]

beware though.. the weights rust

would advise clearcoating or painting them from the first day.. otherwise u may have to keep oiling them