Eliminate up down left right - Learning to fly article

[etman]

Eliminate up down left right - Learning to fly article

I think this article is great. Talks about orientation.
I'm already learing to fly inverted on the simulator.

[blueangel]

I don't prefer his teachings.

Conclusion
I have been flying model airplanes since 1948. I think I wasted most of my practice time until I formulated these rules 5 years ago. Last year one of my son's pattern flying friends came up to me and said that my flying had improved so much he didn't recognize my flying. Getting rid of "LEFT", "RIGHT", "UP", and "DOWN" was better than 100 gallons of 15% practice fuel. The hours of directional orientation analysis and practice were worth it!

Thats more than 60 years and then he finally found out how to fly and orientate himself ? And he formulated the rules 5 years ago ?

Hmm.. my 2 cents here , no flaming please.. that this author.. really need more flying time.

Why must a up is down and down is up be written on a rule book when flying inverted ? Didn't he realise it after couple of months of flying ??

Just try in on the SIM can understand immediately already what.. of course skills may need to be learnt, but the rules ( logic ) is already quite obvious right ??

[etman]

I don't prefer his teachings.



Thats more than 60 years and then he finally found out how to fly and orientate himself ? And he formulated the rules 5 years ago ?

Hmm.. my 2 cents here , no flaming please.. that this author.. really need more flying time.

Why must a up is down and down is up be written on a rule book when flying inverted ? Didn't he realise it after couple of months of flying ??

Just try in on the SIM can understand immediately already what.. of course skills may need to be learnt, but the rules ( logic ) is already quite obvious right ??

Yes you are right, he's a slow learner. He doesn't need more flying time, come on its already 60 years, he's just stuck in his thinking and realized a better way of learning orientation.
You may be one of the fast learner, see already know, good for you lah.
For a slow learner like me, I don't catch things naturally, must teach the fundementals clearly and break the bad habits. At least what he explained in a clear manner helped me to understand.

[blueangel]

Sorry bro.. pardon my speech. But I not saying anyone is slow... or you for that matter lah.. cool cool peace peace.. Sorry don't want to offend any members here with my words.. yeah !

What I mean is my opinion on the method he use to teach himself to figure out up is down and down is up when inverted,and left is right and right is left when flying towards him.

What I felt is, it is quite easy to understand where the author is coming from, but it is difficult for me to use his theory to apply to flying. In fact when driving RC cars too is the same problem.

I would rather imagine myself inside the car ( or plane, boat ).. and then think going left or right by moving the stick left and right... rather than trying to stand at the field as a 3rd party looking at the car ( or plane, boat etc) and then apply the theory of

If plane is coming towards you, left is right stick, right is left stick
If plane is away from you, left is left stick, right is right stick

It will be very confusing when the brain tries to decypher the logic..

For me, I ( personal preference ) prefer to imagine myself inside the plane. Then I feel very nature to go left and right. IT is the same as driving RC car because there is really no way you can figure out left and right when the car is not towards you or away from you... On a track, the track runs more than just towards you and away from you.. it has also runs diagonally away from you, diagonally towards you, runs from left to right or vice versa and it also can have gradual decreasing turns and many other direction.

If this is the case, then the author would have to devise a whole list of theories, diagonal left towards, diagonal right away, towards straight, away straight , away diagonally.. etc..

I am not pointing at anyone, just commenting on the author's theory..

[edmond22]

Hey Etman,

I understand what you are saying. I supposed the only common thing we all HAVE TO DO is "time" which is training (sounds like jail). I am quite comfortable with planes, flying up down towards me or all at once, it comes quite naturally fast for me. There is however a big BUT, on heli, that natural feel cease to exist. For some reason, just because the bugger can go backward and sideways, it makes the whole thing different enough for me to need to start over just like everybody else. Hover tail in first, then tackle next thing etc. And some of the thing that came as a by product naturally is things such as nose in hovering. I did not bother to train it. I just keep doing fig 8 forward flight all the time making it rounder faster and slower. It came so slow for me one day till nose in hover is achieved even without me realising.

So somethings dun need too much deliberating in the mind, do the time and let your muscle and brain get used to it. You will be surprised at how fast you can be actually. So for the things you are normally doing already, do them still. Then take on other moves slowly but dun just master them, get real comfortable with them, you will find "by products" along with it usually.

Good luck.

[blueangel]

I have not flew inverted yet, except in a terrible stall that landed inverted. I am not comfortable doing that yet.

But I am all very comfy with flying inverted , knife edge, loops and landing etc in the simulation. The sim is too simplistic in nature... its like playing a game - zero andrenaline.. As I mentioned in my other thread, I find that sim is only less than 50% real in flying a real RC plane. But the instinct / preparation is there if I needed to apply in real time. But in terms of directional sense and visualization of plane flying towards or away , I think there is no doubt that what you are comfy with in the sim will apply exactly in real RC flying, no accounting for the sound, speed and wind in the face.

So as long as one is comfy with the sim, do that for the real plane. Don't try to change the habit. Because habit become second nature to a person, just like bad habits don't change, one become accustomed to nature gestures and gait or behavior, good or bad.. hehe

[Tony]

I found it to be an interesting read. His key point is to advice people to lose the hangup with up down left right thinking because in truth, they don't have much meaning other than when the plane is flying upright and directly away from you.

I suppose most people will do this almost intuitively but not everyone. Those of you who know me better will know that I sail boats for fun......as in the ocean going boats with great big white sails. A long way back, I was involved from time to time in teaching newbies how to sail little dingies/catamarans. Sailboats whether large ocean going or small little dinghies are the same, in that they cannot sail directly into the wind. To sail upwind, sailboats have to tack, a side to side maneouvre wherein the boat will zig zag upwind at an angle of around about 40 degrees to the wind. You'd be surprised as to how many people get directionally disoriented every time a tack is done and will often end up sailing backwards or in circles - no kidding. This is why we do not use the term left or right on a boat. Windward (side to the wind) or leeward (side away from the wind) is more relevant and useful.

This guy, in his instructional is doing the very same thing in that he is teaching people not to think of up, down, left or right which can be quite meaningless when a plane is in flight.

[blueangel]

While we are at discussion of learning to fly in this thread, I hope not to O.T with just one question..

When someone advise to fly at 3 mistakes high, what exactly do you guys mean by that ?

What is 1 mistake-high when you mentioned that ? Does it mean that height can only allow you to make one mistake ? Now.. what mistake considered ? examples ??

[etman]

While we are at discussion of learning to fly in this thread, I hope not to O.T with just one question..

When someone advise to fly at 3 mistakes high, what exactly do you guys mean by that ?

What is 1 mistake-high when you mentioned that ? Does it mean that height can only allow you to make one mistake ? Now.. what mistake considered ? examples ??

I read somewhere that if you find yourself inverted and in trouble, just pull up stick and do a split s maneuver. That is 1 mistake high I guess...

[Tony]

When someone advise to fly at 3 mistakes high, what exactly do you guys mean by that ?

3 mistakes high is just a general yardstick meaning that you aught to be high enough so that you can have a chance to get yourself out of trouble before hitting the ground. There is no specific measure in terms of height etc. It'll vary with the flying speed, turning radius, weight etc of the aircraft.

So a safe height for a slow flying and lightweight electric biplane may be terminal for a heavy metal jet turbine.

[etman]

Hey Etman,

I understand what you are saying. I supposed the only common thing we all HAVE TO DO is "time" which is training (sounds like jail). I am quite comfortable with planes, flying up down towards me or all at once, it comes quite naturally fast for me. There is however a big BUT, on heli, that natural feel cease to exist. For some reason, just because the bugger can go backward and sideways, it makes the whole thing different enough for me to need to start over just like everybody else. Hover tail in first, then tackle next thing etc. And some of the thing that came as a by product naturally is things such as nose in hovering. I did not bother to train it. I just keep doing fig 8 forward flight all the time making it rounder faster and slower. It came so slow for me one day till nose in hover is achieved even without me realising.

So somethings dun need too much deliberating in the mind, do the time and let your muscle and brain get used to it. You will be surprised at how fast you can be actually. So for the things you are normally doing already, do them still. Then take on other moves slowly but dun just master them, get real comfortable with them, you will find "by products" along with it usually.

Good luck.

Hi Edmond,

Yes doing time on the simulator helps a lot to practice hand eye coordination.
That's why I keep practicing. Sometimes even on simulator can be very frustrating, always crash or can't get the manueuver right. So this kind of instruction helps me. Cheers!

[etman]

I read somewhere that if you find yourself inverted and in trouble, just pull up stick and do a split s maneuver. That is 1 mistake high I guess...

This is another website teaching aerobatics. Hope you guys find it useful.
[url=http://members.cox.net/moorman1/maneuver.htm]Ed Moorman's Maneuver Cards[url]

[etman]

This is another website teaching aerobatics. Hope you guys find it useful.
Ed Moorman's Maneuver Cards

[etman]

Sorry bro.. pardon my speech. But I not saying anyone is slow... or you for that matter lah.. cool cool peace peace.. Sorry don't want to offend any members here with my words.. yeah !

No problem bro...

[etman]

I have not flew inverted yet, except in a terrible stall that landed inverted. I am not comfortable doing that yet.

But I am all very comfy with flying inverted , knife edge, loops and landing etc in the simulation. The sim is too simplistic in nature... its like playing a game - zero andrenaline.. As I mentioned in my other thread, I find that sim is only less than 50% real in flying a real RC plane. But the instinct / preparation is there if I needed to apply in real time. But in terms of directional sense and visualization of plane flying towards or away , I think there is no doubt that what you are comfy with in the sim will apply exactly in real RC flying, no accounting for the sound, speed and wind in the face.

So as long as one is comfy with the sim, do that for the real plane. Don't try to change the habit. Because habit become second nature to a person, just like bad habits don't change, one become accustomed to nature gestures and gait or behavior, good or bad.. hehe

Wow you already know how to fly inverted, so you should go for it man, mai too liao...
My 2 cents. The plane need to be trimmed perfectly before it can do inverted or any other stunt. And that's why its difficult to fly inverted in real plane than in the sim. Sim planes are always perfectly trimmed.