Going Flybarless

[wacs]

hi,

on FBL setups, only 3 axis systems allow you to do away with a gyro?
seems that vstabi is a popular choice, how do the other offerings rondo ac3x compare? anyone have feedback? considering my options going forward on a 500 size platform, choices are trex500esp or mikado

[helirulz]

hi,

on FBL setups, only 3 axis systems allow you to do away with a gyro?
seems that vstabi is a popular choice, how do the other offerings rondo ac3x compare? anyone have feedback? considering my options going forward on a 500 size platform, choices are trex500esp or mikado

Go with either the vstabi or gyrobot. These 2 systems have quite a good following over the other brands.

On a 500 size, I think you're better off with a one-piece design(aka gyrobot).

[genexis]

i'll go for the vstabi for 3 axis...

The software seems to be receiving very good feedbacks from the users in other forums.

Nicely priced for a 3 axis flybarless system too.

[JYZoom]

Good stuff coming out

There are some good stuffs coming out for 450 size heli to go FBL.

With next two weeks, Curtis Youngblood will have flybalress head for Rave. A very very nice one, one that looks similar to the 3D MP head....you know where I am going with this.

Within next two months, Mini-VBAR will be out. I believe.


JOnathan

[helirulz]

There are some good stuffs coming out for 450 size heli to go FBL.

With next two weeks, Curtis Youngblood will have flybalress head for Rave. A very very nice one, one that looks similar to the 3D MP head....you know where I am going with this.

Within next two months, Mini-VBAR will be out. I believe.


JOnathan

up so early jonathan?

Actually how would you compare the vstabi 4.0 to the gyrobot in terms of ease of setup as well as flight performance?

[JYZoom]

posting from bishan field

Gyrobot is good, like VSTABI ultra mode on 3.16.

VSTABI 4.0 really really transform the flybarless experience for me
that I really don't miss flybar heli anymore.

Some peolpe call cheating....I am cheating all the way now.

Jonathan

[mcs40]

There are some good stuffs coming out for 450 size heli to go FBL.

With next two weeks, Curtis Youngblood will have flybalress head for Rave. A very very nice one, one that looks similar to the 3D MP head....you know where I am going with this.

Within next two months, Mini-VBAR will be out. I believe.


JOnathan

yeah i will be watching closely on the FBL head for Rave as well.

Still pondering whether to wait for the Mini V-Bar or get the current VBar. Gyrobot is also one of the considerations.

[genexis]

depends on what you fly. The mini V is supposedly not meant for 600 size and above.

For flybarless 3 axis system, i'm only considering the Vbar because of the new 4.0 software. It makes configuration really simple, which is VERY important because there are a lot of parameters for all the 3 axis systems in the market now.

Even for the 2-axis systems like the sk360, there are already lots of parameters, but i didn't tweak most of them.

[army627]

Have anyone used gaui 365?kenneth,is it not that good?Why?SH have you try it?

[Super-Hornet]

Have anyone used gaui 365?...SH have you try it?

Nope...but seeing it in Kenneth heli before. IMHO, Gaui 365 is no different compare to using 2 standard rate mode piezo gyro with eCCPM mixer. Maybe the configurations on Kenneth setting is incorrect, but I find that using 2 standard gyro perform better than using Gaui 365. (All this is based on my personal point of view)

SH

[army627]

okey...so you don't own 1 and have not try exploring the product...only seeing others whom having problem...so no 1 can help...saw lots of video and review about the gyro at other wed site and looks like okey...and if wat you said that using 2 standard gyro perform better than using Gaui 365.I guess you can figure it out...so Kenneth where did you go wrong?pls share...by doing so maybe others could have an idea...so that others can have an open mind on which product is good or not...all product in the market is good...Nosein with right research and feedback you will find the right 1...pls go and look out at other websites...some time the product is good but you can't afford it...that's another question...once you found out something you also gain knowledge and from there you can make the right choice...btw if Gyrobot is so good why SH still using standard gyro for his scale?Ask opinion and not getting trap by them whom pushing product in silent...Happy flying...

[Super-Hornet]

So far, I'm using standard 2 gyro with eCCPM in some of my helis and SK360 in other helis.

The way I look at Gaui 365 is that:
1. It is a piezo gyro type.
2. No other tweaking available except gyro gain.

With 1 & 2, it is the same/similar as I'm using piezo GWS PG-03. If I can afford 2 pieces of better gyro (than GWS PG-03) like GY401, I believe it can perform even better.

For SK360 (and Gyrobot, V-Bar and so on), they are using:
1. Better gyro.
2. More tweakings and settings.

By having more tweakings like Hiller-Decay, Bell and Hiller mixer and so on, u can tweak them in such a way the gyro mimics the flybar+paddles(weight) much more realistic and thus fly much better....rather than just gyro gain alone.

With that, using more features available in SK360 (which I have) or V-Bar (I don't have or can't afford) or Gyrobot (can't afford), it can perform much much better than using standard 2 gyro combination.

EDIT: "btw if Gyrobot is so good why SH still using standard gyro for his scale?"
To answer that:
Since the cost of using 2 standard gyro is cheaper than using Gaui 365 and it make no different (or it might be worse) if I switch to Gaui 365. Thus, why I want to switch to Gaui 365?
Gyrobot is good...but it much much expensive compare to SK360. Don't forget that if u are getting Gyrobot 700, it do not have "Phase Offset" and only has eCCPM120 settings. SK360 has "Phase Offset" and eCCPM120, 140, 90 and mCCPM combination. If u want all those phase offsets and eCCPM120/140/90, u need to use Gyrobot 900 and above...which is even more expensive.
Note: Stock eRaptor uses eCCPM90. Some bigger scale are in eCCPM90. Normal raptor is in mCCPM.


SH

[Super-Hornet]

Addition to the above post:
If u are flying 2 bladed flybarless, u do not need phase offset. If u are flying multibladed heli, and u want to have the linkage (from swash to blade grip) to be straight line, u need phase offset. (If your heli is eCCPM120, u can sometime play cheat by rearranging the cyclic channel and thus, no phase offset is required..but by doing so, normally one servo required to turn the seating position or program it to turn CCW. This can only be done in some Digital servo)

Even though u are using 2 bladed flybarless, u can sometime make use of phase offset a bit in order to change the phase angle to LESS than 90Degree. Why do that? U might asked. Well, in some flybarless head, it is so rigid that when u apply cyclics, the overall movement may not be correct, thus u use the phase offset to compensate it.

SH

[kennethw]

Wow, lots of debate on this ...

My experience with the Gaui has been 'interesting' to say the least. I did manage to set it up OK in the end, but due to newbie building and newbie flying skills, it was very difficult.

The BIGGEST caveat to what I have to say is that I was setting up the Gaui for a 5-bladder which has many more challenges for the Gaui than a 2-blader would have.

One of the biggest difficulties that I had was phasing the head correctly. There is no phase control in the Gaui, so the head has to be phased at 90 degrees. When you get the phasing correct, the rest of the swash to grip links need to be 100% (or as much as possible) be as rigid as possible. This is because at 90 degree phasing, the links at a pretty good angle, and if there is any slop in the follower, any movement will change the pitch of the blades quite dramatically.

With the Gaui, you can't really put the links straight because the phasing will be out unless you can angle it in such a way that you can swap the servo placement to compensate. So, it will be different angles for different eCCPM setups. If you are using mCCPM, it can't be done.

With a 2-blader, the links are always straight, so the slop problem is lessened.

What this basically means that if there is any slop, the heli could pitch up/down/right/left/forward/backward unexpectedly. As an example of what happened to me, simply throttle up, the heli will not take off with quite a lot of stick-up. Then suddenly the heli would shoot into the air due to the little slop which can change the blade pitch quite a lot as it is a direct link.

The other 'challenge' is the setup methodolgy. Everytime you change a setting in your Tx, you need to reset the Gaui. I didn't know that at first.
Because FBL is a direct link, the response is direct and very fast. Any stick movement translates into very very quick heli response. The instructions tell you to set the Aileron and Elevator swash setting to 50% of what your normal setting would be, which means that the swash movement is lessened, but this then heightens the slop problem; i.e. the movement could be so low that you are always in the 'slop zone' making the heli completely unpredictable.

Also, the servos need to be able to take the load due to the direct linkage. I was initially using 1kg servos, and it couldn't respond. For example, when I put left aileron then move to right aileron, the inertia force could not bring it back quickly enough. In fact, I have broken a few servo gears and arms in mid flight. I now use 2.5kg metal gears and the thickest servo arms that I can find and seems to work OK.

As you might have guessed, I have since put my Gaui up for sale (no takers of course) and am using the SK360. There is my experience with it:

- Phase control allows me to make the links straight and therefore slop is not as much a problem as before.
- Electronically able to level the servo arms as base making travel between the 3 servos more consistant
- Bell and Hiller gain controls making the heli more stable and to a responsive level that suits you (the more blades, the more response which can be tuned down)
- Tx signal 'centering' (if this makes sense) so that when at mid-stick, the signal is mid-stick
- ease of setup

After setup the first time, the heli flew nicely.

[JYZoom]

bad FBL head

Addition to the above post:
If u are flying 2 bladed flybarless, u do not need phase offset. If u are flying multibladed heli, and u want to have the linkage (from swash to blade grip) to be straight line, u need phase offset. (If your heli is eCCPM120, u can sometime play cheat by rearranging the cyclic channel and thus, no phase offset is required..but by doing so, normally one servo required to turn the seating position or program it to turn CCW. This can only be done in some Digital servo)

Even though u are using 2 bladed flybarless, u can sometime make use of phase offset a bit in order to change the phase angle to LESS than 90Degree. Why do that? U might asked. Well, in some flybarless head, it is so rigid that when u apply cyclics, the overall movement may not be correct, thus u use the phase offset to compensate it.

SH

Or....your self make FBL head is not done right?