Honey Bee Forward Flight Query

[flameangel]

Hi,

I am now learning foward flight and turning on a Honey Bee FP. Do i turn just using just Rudder control or both Rudder and Aileron control?

[linhai]

Hi,

I am now learning foward flight and turning on a Honey Bee FP. Do i turn just using just Rudder control or both Rudder and Aileron control?

learn by controlling the rear rotor first ... the with both

correct me if im wrong ... i learnt that way :-)

[CKS]

abit of ail left and more rudd left to turn left.. abit of ail right and rudd right to turn right

I think the training videos from http://www.helifreak.com/viewtopic.php?t=13459&start=0 are pretty good
Need membership to download them

[Super-Hornet]

I maybe wrong but here is my take:
U either use Rudder turning or u use Cyclic turning.

If u prefer Rudder turning, u use rudder to turn..u might need to apply abit of aileron turning also. I normally use Rudder turning when heli is moving forward in very very slow speed or when hover. The visual movement of this is that tail swing alot while the body remain level position. The tail tend to look like higher than the body

If u prefer cyclic turning, u turn it like u are flying an airplane and doing turning. That is, u bank left/right aileron and then back to neutral and then pull the Elevator stick up (nose up). The visual movement of this is that, the tail remain the same height as the body but the body is tilted at an angle...just like real heli or airplane turning when they are in forward motion. U only use the rudder to compensate the movement only...most of the time, u do not use it.

For cyclic turning, how much turning (or how small the turning circle is depend on how much u pull the elevator cyclic and how much u bank it)

SH

[aerobird]

I maybe wrong but here is my take:
If u prefer cyclic turning, u turn it like u are flying an airplane and doing turning. That is, u bank left/right aileron and then back to neutral and then pull the Elevator stick up (nose up). The visual movement of this is that, the tail remain the same height as the body but the body is tilted at an angle...just like real heli or airplane turning when they are in forward motion. U only use the rudder to compensate the movement only...most of the time, u do not use it.

SH

I'm not sure if a FP honey bee has a heading hold gyro, but you cannot turn without proper rudder co-ordination in a HH gyro.

At slow speeds (walking pace), a heli turns by RUDDER.

At FAST forward speeds, a heli WITHOUT HH gyro can turn like a plane without rudder input (not recommended), as the banking (cyclic/aileron) will cause a turning vector and the tail of the heli will Weatherwane because of the wind. A HH Gyro however, will force the tail to remain fixed so even if you try to bank like a plane, the tail will not follow. Rudder input is required.

In any case, while flying forward at reasonable speed, you should always turn with both cyclic and rudder co-ordinated.

Even in a real plane, we never turn without rudder. What we do is to enter the turn by turning the aileron (yoke), and at the same time, press the rudder pedals. When we reach our bank angle (about 30*), we neutralise the yoke back to the center maintaining the bank angle, but we keep the rudder pressed to prevent "skidding" of the plane (the feeling you get when you take corners in a car). That's why if you sit inside an airliner, and the pilot banks up to 45* (or more), you don't feel anything.

[aerobird]

Oh, if you like to see some videos of my heli in fast forward turning flights, look at my videos.. Here

Check out the sceadu an the trex video.

It will give you an idea what the heli would look like in a turn using both cyclic and rudder.

[detach8]

hey bro since you are a pilot.. you the best guy to ask
when you input a right aileron, you will give abit of up elevator to keep the airplane at constant altitude, right? then by giving right rudder, you will need even more up elevator?

anyway with regards to heli turn, must turn with both rudder and aileron... depending on speed. slow can do with just rudder. fast need aileron, elevator and rudder.. something like airplane.

[junyang]

hey bro since you are a pilot.. you the best guy to ask
when you input a right aileron, you will give abit of up elevator to keep the airplane at constant altitude, right? then by giving right rudder, you will need even more up elevator?

anyway with regards to heli turn, must turn with both rudder and aileron... depending on speed. slow can do with just rudder. fast need aileron, elevator and rudder.. something like airplane.

when you give an cyclic input. your heli will lose abit of headspeed.. and then drop in altitude..

thats why there is Swash to Throttle mixing

[detach8]

lol bro i was asking abt airplane not heli

[aerobird]

lol bro i was asking abt airplane not heli

In bank, the lift vector is now at an angle, instead of straight up. This means that part of the lift is used to move the plane to the left/right. Due to this, the plane will drop. We use elevator (back pressure) to keep the nose up without altitude loss.

To give you some idea what it's like in a typical 1 engine cessna... at 30* bank angle, the back pressure is like lifting 1 brick... not too heavy. at 45*, you are like carrying 3 to 4 bricks. At 60* angle, you need both hands to keep the elevator back.

Also, once we've got our bank angle, we neutralise the yoke back to the center, but keep rudder input. The yoke is then maintained with small movements to PREVENT the plane from banking further. We usually have to very subtlely move the yoke in the opp direction to prevent the rudder from causing more bank. This is usually very instinctive so we don't need to think about that while turning.

Cheers

[awesome]

Hi,

I am now learning foward flight and turning on a Honey Bee FP. Do i turn just using just Rudder control or both Rudder and Aileron control?

both input are required. i am sure you already know the diff between the two. i just keep my eyes on the heli and compensate accordingly..it will become a natural process.

[bell206]

awesome is right - compensate accordingly and it will become a natural process.

Specifically for Honeybee FP, I think rudder input is required more than cyclic to turn.

[ammo]

Always turn with both rudder and aileron inputs to get a smooth turn and avoid dropping the tail in the turn.

Go into a turn leading with aileron inputs followed by both rudder and elevator accordingly.

[aerobird]

awesome is right - compensate accordingly and it will become a natural process.

Specifically for Honeybee FP, I think rudder input is required more than cyclic to turn.

Using what more or what less is not heli specific. Even the Lama V3 in "fast" forward flight and making a normal looking banking turn requires FULL aileron stick input. (too stable ) However, if I were to fly forward fast in the lama, and just use rudder to turn, I'll end up flying backwards going in the same direction as I started.

As everyone here said, the turn is co-ordinated between rudder and aileron... AND elevator to keep the nose up... AND collective/throttle to prevent the heli from sinking.... After a while, it becomes instinctive.. anyway... like driving a car.

[bell206]

Using what more or what less is not heli specific. Even the Lama V3 in "fast" forward flight and making a normal looking banking turn requires FULL aileron stick input. (too stable ) However, if I were to fly forward fast in the lama, and just use rudder to turn, I'll end up flying backwards going in the same direction as I started.

As everyone here said, the turn is co-ordinated between rudder and aileron... AND elevator to keep the nose up... AND collective/throttle to prevent the heli from sinking.... After a while, it becomes instinctive.. anyway... like driving a car.

In that case. it must be just my feeling. Somehow I feel that with the same radius, a heavier heli need to bank more and pull more elevator.