Hornet II tail wagging..........

[jameswilliam]

What is the main problem that course Hornet II tail wag? I know sometime ago there was a discussion about this issue. Do the problem start from, When it is first start building time? I heard the tail wag not just only by the tail but it is when the whole kit is building time. Any tips or advice for me before I start this model? Oh...! BTW which gyro is more better GY401 or G240.....etc,etc. As for the servo I go with H55X3 and H50X1. The only things I miss out is the batt and RX which is more cost saving. ( Money abit shot )..........TKs!

Jameswilliam

[X-3810]

Tail ratio.

Come to think about it why nitros do not have tail wagging

problems during idle 1 and 2? This is because of the reliable

engine rpm. Try this, during Normal mode, fully throttle the

engine and close the engine, the heli will wag. This is due to the

lack of engine rpm to compensate the tail moment. On the

other hand, this is not a prolem when u idle up the enigne. There

is always sufficent power deliver to the tail rotor. Hence, my

suggestion is that if u want to hover your heli, u have to

endure with this problem. If u idle up the motor, chances is

that this problem will be minimise, provided your gyro gain is

properly adjusted. All the best.

[Art]

which means that I shouldn't get one just to hover.....|??

[yC86]

lol!!!

no need gyro to hover mar..... use hand n hold the rudder can liao... like the good old days.........
or u could use revo-mixing

haha..

[Fit]

The wag on the H2 is basically due to the design of the tail hub.
The tail balde grips are rotating on threaded screws instead of ball bearings on larger helis. As you can imagine, the screw threads will catch under load due to the centrifurgal force of the tail blades and will never match the smoothness that ball bearings offer.

At high rpms, the load on the blade grips are high for the tiny screw threads. The tail bellcrank becomes increasingly difficult to turn as the headspeed gets higher and this stiction causes the tail wag.

Its a must that the screw threads are well lubricated to reduce stiction to a minimum. Also the whole tail assembly must be able to move absolutely freely to aviod tail wag.

There are a few other things to look out for when assembling the tail to get a wag free tail. The above is just one of them.
Small tweaks on such a small machine has an impact on how it performs, attention to such things makes all the difference.

[HZM]

Well remember to use the inner most hole of your servo for tail. Don like me, use the outer most hole and the entire tail wag like no tomorrow.

MIke

[jameswilliam]

Sorry for the late reply, now to aviod tail wag the tail must be freely,but will it creating too much free play at the gear box? What about the whole main body? Do I need to look out for any things at the main body of H2 beside the tail gear box?

On other forums some flyers had problem with GY401 or GY240 and some don 't. Do this course by in properly assembling of the gear box or it is the gyro? Please advice me any information on H2 will be appreciate.TKs!

Jameswilliam.........

[jameswilliam]

I believe there is alot of Hornet II flyers here,Care to give your advice to me? Is HS55 servo or HS56 servo better on the H2, as for tail servo will stick to HS50 no change. Rx and batt any advice too.

Jameswilliam.........

[Fit]

Yeah what Mike said is very important. Totally forgot about that.
As long as you do things slowly, you should be able to free things up without inducing slop.
As for other parts of the hornet, you just need to take your time and properly set your servos and linkages.

I doubt its the gyro. Most of the time its the tail not being setup right. In my opinion get the GY401 if you have the cash, but then again I am biased!

No need to go for the HS56, they are overkill IMO... they just add weight to the heli. Right now THE servos to use for cyclics are the Futaba S3108. Get those over the HS55. They are slightly lighter and has less slop and are faster as well.

RX choice would be either a Berg 6 or a dual conversion rx like the electron 6. There are others as well. If you use the AXI motor together with the MS116 ESC, glitches would not be a problem. With the Phoenix 10, most receivers get hits.

As for battery, the best is so far the Thunder Power 1320 packs. They are the one to have for all out power.

[Fit]

Hey James, here are some useful links to help you out in the building of the Hornet:

-Eric Larson's Hornet Setup

-Deetee's Hornet Info

-Hornet BBS

[jameswilliam]

HI! Fit,

Thanks alot on the info,I 'm really appreciate the time you spent and giving tips on the H2 set up as well I thanks mike too for time for me too. I 'll be working on this Hornet II project soon so any info and advice will be good for me. Please keep it coming.TKs!

Jameswilliam........

[Super-Hornet]

Hi jameswilliam

What I going to say or tell you are all base on my experience on my Hornet II.

There are many ways the Hornet II will wag. Most of them already explain by Fit or Mike.

Our Hornet II tail drive shaft is made of carbon rod. This carbon rod will go weaken after some time. When it become weak, I do notice that it flex or twist very easily (Become soft). When it twist, the tail will start to wag. Replace the drive shaft will help. Some resort to use titanium or stainless steel instead because it does not twist as much or as easy as carbon rod BUT the disadvantage is that it is heavier, bend easily and does not stick well to the pinion.

Some find that by putting tail servo closer to the tail push rod (near the tail blades) will reduce/eliminate the tail wag. I did not try this because I do not like to see long wire going to the tail side. I also notice that if u have fast tail servo, it can reach fast enough and it will reduce/eliminate the tail wag. Tail servo with very low or small free play will also play apart. Too much free play and u see wag. HS-56 freeplay and torque is much better than HS-50 and HS-55.

Putting push rod closer to servo arm will have slower and finer movement. Farther away and u have fast but huge movement on the pushrod movement. I notice that sometime going closer to servo arm will reduce/eliminate wag but your tail will be slower/insensitive.

Higher gain on servo will also make tail wag. Slower gain will reduce wag but your tail will become insensitive or weak movement especially u do rapid Up/Down or Sideway movement.

Gyro that has Delay feature like GY401 may help reduce wagging problem also.

Lower headspeed and u will see your tail goes weak to movement (Slow waging but u can increase your gyro gain). Higher headspeed and u will see your tail is strong and powerful but tail will wag higher (Faster wagging) and u have to reduce the gyro gain.

Sometime making your tail pitch with some +ve pitch during 0 offset/level servo position may help to some also.

That is all I can say for now. I still finding the best solution.

Super-Hornet

[jameswilliam]

Another BIG THANKS! to Super-Hornet what a good review from you it 's really help alot this time.Now I even know better about H2 with all the info that giving to me. Is like a jump start to know H2 before getting start on it.

TKs! To Super-Hornet. by: Jameswilliam.

[jameswilliam]

HI! Fit,

You was saying the HS 56 is overkill and add weight to the H2 by using it for the cyclics so Futaba S3108 was install, and Super-Hornet advice as for the tail servo used the HS 56. Because HS-56 freeplay and torque is much better than HS-50 and HS-55. But will it add weight to the tail as well? Even know HS-56 is faster then HS-55 or 50.

OH....! BTW before I forgot. What is the pitch and throttle curve you guys had on your setting? And where is the cheapest place to get my receivers,ESC,servo and batt? I would like to start with brushless motor(forget about the stock motor) which is better 2015 or 2025/ 2mm 8 or 9 pinion gear for this two motor????......
and how long can it last each flight by using 3s batt in 1500 or 2000????......

Sorry for beening so loh so, because this will be my first electric and try to know more from it. So can fly at night at home or at home when it is raining days

Jameswilliam.....

[Super-Hornet]

Hi jameswilliam

Yes... HS56 is more heavier than the HS-50 and HS-55. I think it is about 4 to 5 grams heavier. I can't remember.

HA2015 is lighter than HA2025 but HA2025 is more powerful.

HA2015 is like direct replacement of 280 and 350 motor while HA2025 is a direct replacement of 350 and 400.

So of us uses HA2015 (I think fit is using it) while I use HA2025. The disadvantage of HA2025 is that it is heavier (already mention above), need at least PHX-25 or equivalent and longer (Longer means it is closer to the ground)

I think if u are not running governor, 9 Teeth pinion should ok if your motor is around 4100kv

As for pitch and throttle curve, i think it is a bit of difficult to tell u because everyone has its own preference.

Super-Hornet