Need Help On Invincible Razor Set-up

[RC1054]

Having some problem with the power plant.

With the following set-up
1. Motor : Velocity 6 poles 1850Kv
2. ESC : 180A HobbyWing
3. Lipo: 2X3S 4000mA in series (6S1P)
4. Prop : Stock (43mm dia) 443

Boat run OK. Not too fast but batt flatted after only 3-4 mins run.

I next change the set-up to
1. Motor : Velocity 6 poles 2500Kv
2. ESC : 180A HobbyWing
3. Lipo: 2X5S 5000mA in parallel (5S2P)
4. Prop : Stock (43mm dia) 443

Boat run much faster but ESC burn after 5 mins run. Replaced the ESC (180A HobbyWing) and I burn the second one today.

Can someone advise me what could be the problem. What is the "proven" set-up for a >100km/hrs. Should I get a higher 240A ESC? Should I change to Leopard 4082? Tks.

[Mel279]

Having some problem with the power plant.

With the following set-up
1. Motor : Velocity 6 poles 1850Kv
2. ESC : 180A HobbyWing
3. Lipo: 2X3S 4000mA in series (6S1P)
4. Prop : Stock (43mm dia) 443

Boat run OK. Not too fast but batt flatted after only 3-4 mins run.

I next change the set-up to
1. Motor : Velocity 6 poles 2500Kv
2. ESC : 180A HobbyWing
3. Lipo: 2X5S 5000mA in parallel (5S2P)
4. Prop : Stock (43mm dia) 443

Boat run much faster but ESC burn after 5 mins run. Replaced the ESC (180A HobbyWing) and I burn the second one today.

Can someone advise me what could be the problem. What is the "proven" set-up for a >100km/hrs. Should I get a higher 240A ESC? Should I change to Leopard 4082? Tks.

bro

how big is your boat? and your motor is too much rpm for 5s, no suprise your esc's burnt. To get 100km/h would need alot of learning and $$$ too. Running 6s would be good to select motor between 1300kv - 1500kv. 5s would be 1600kv to 1800kv. Leopard motor is a good choice.

[Adrianli]

What kind of hull is that???

Fastest to get to 100km/h is outriggers.

For SAW run, keep it to 1-2 pass only. And rpm in the range of 40,000-50,000rpm. Yes, u will get 100km/h but not good for sport running in ovals. As heats build up in ur motor n esc and then magic smoke.

[RC1054]

Its a mono hull. Intended to do straight run not oval. In the 5S2P setup the ESC burnt (very little smoke) after 2 few runs (<4). No visible burnt sign nor smell. The motor/ESC/Lipo were not very hot. The ESC just failed. No control. And it happen twice! I am not using the BEC onboard the 180A ESC. Instead I use a separate 2S lipo on a Voltron 6A 5.4V voltage regulator.

Will ask Jet Hobby to help send the 2 180A HobbyWing ESC (S$180/- each) back for repair. Understand from Jet Hobby that someone is using similar setup on the same boat. Hope I can get in touch with that person.

[Adrianli]

For V-hull, then the power setup got to overcome a bigger area of drag coefficient. Its all abt power to weight ratio. Consider using 5S1P only with higher discharge capacity. Larger motor with longer can size to increase the torque, probably an outrunner motor.

As for ESC, use capacity bank.







BTW, how much amp are drawing??? Best if u can post an eagletree graph of ur run.

[Dting26]

Having some problem with the power plant.

With the following set-up
1. Motor : Velocity 6 poles 1850Kv
2. ESC : 180A HobbyWing
3. Lipo: 2X3S 4000mA in series (6S1P)
4. Prop : Stock (43mm dia) 443

Boat run OK. Not too fast but batt flatted after only 3-4 mins run.

I next change the set-up to
1. Motor : Velocity 6 poles 2500Kv
2. ESC : 180A HobbyWing
3. Lipo: 2X5S 5000mA in parallel (5S2P)
4. Prop : Stock (43mm dia) 443

Boat run much faster but ESC burn after 5 mins run. Replaced the ESC (180A HobbyWing) and I burn the second one today.

Can someone advise me what could be the problem. What is the "proven" set-up for a >100km/hrs. Should I get a higher 240A ESC? Should I change to Leopard 4082? Tks.

What's the discharge rate on those batt. that you used? i.e. 20C? 40C?

From what u have described, the 180A ESC burnt, which mean, there are more than 180A current flow through this device... your 5S 5000mA parallel configuration can support 200A with just 20C rating.... I believe u must have over drive your motor.... do u know the spec. of the motor? Look out for the max. watt., max. voltage and recommended prop. for use etc..


Hope this help...

[RC1054]

Hi Dting26,

The 5S Lipo is rated 35C. So with 5000mA => 175A per pack. 2 Packs => 350A!

HobbyWing Seaking-180A ESC is rated 180A Continuous current and 360A burst current. I only hit full throttle only a few seconds during the straight run and back to mid stick.

The only spec I have for the velocity motor is 2500kv 6 poles (Jet Hobby). The motor is so new that it does'nt even have a part number printed on it. Will try to get more detail from Jet Hobby in my next visit. I was told that this motor is very powerful and should be able handle the 5S2P setup.

After the first run (<5 mins) I open to see if everything is OK. saw some smoke but every thing is still running fine. Tested the rudder and the motor is still running. Sealed everything and put the boat back into the water. But after less than 10 meters run the throttle got no response. Rudder still OK. Replaced with a new ESC the next day and exactly the same thing happen. Very puzzle.

One thing I notice is that the ESC is not burnt like got smoke and fire and connectors all gone etc. There is only little smoke and every thing looks normal.

I am using a separate voltage regulator to power the receiver. Could this be the problem? Because when I use the programming box to read the setting of the "burnt" ESC the control wire started to smoke. Very strange.

[Dting26]

Hi Dting26,

The 5S Lipo is rated 35C. So with 5000mA => 175A per pack. 2 Packs => 350A!

HobbyWing Seaking-180A ESC is rated 180A Continuous current and 360A burst current. I only hit full throttle only a few seconds during the straight run and back to mid stick.

The only spec I have for the velocity motor is 2500kv 6 poles (Jet Hobby). The motor is so new that it does'nt even have a part number printed on it. Will try to get more detail from Jet Hobby in my next visit. I was told that this motor is very powerful and should be able handle the 5S2P setup.

After the first run (<5 mins) I open to see if everything is OK. saw some smoke but every thing is still running fine. Tested the rudder and the motor is still running. Sealed everything and put the boat back into the water. But after less than 10 meters run the throttle got no response. Rudder still OK. Replaced with a new ESC the next day and exactly the same thing happen. Very puzzle.

One thing I notice is that the ESC is not burnt like got smoke and fire and connectors all gone etc. There is only little smoke and every thing looks normal.

I am using a separate voltage regulator to power the receiver. Could this be the problem? Because when I use the programming box to read the setting of the "burnt" ESC the control wire started to smoke. Very strange.

Hi,

With the last statement, I suspect your ESC is gone... perharps you may want to check the motor too; use the ohm meter to make the measurement between the 3 wires, say the label on the 3 wires on the motor as A, B & C, u can take a measurement between A & B, A & C, B & C, they should be a reading of not more than 2~3 ohms... in most cases, due to motor over drive, the heat melted the wire coating which either shorted the coil and finally open circuit due to the burnt.... that's why u must be very clear with the motor spec., look out for the following;

* Max Amp
* Max Power
* Lipo Batt <-- the voltage range... i.e. 3~5S
* Recommended ESC
* Prop.

Take this for your quick reference; P=V x I.

Take B2935-2700-13Y (from JH) as example;

Max Amp = 35A
Max Pwr = 500W
Lipo batt = 3~4S (11.4~15.2v)

if u use 3S; max power (watt) will be 11.4x35=399W
if u use 4S, max power (watt) will be 15.2x35=532W !!
if u put in 6S.... u know what will happen.

Per the Max current spec., we often select about 15% more on ESC; that is about 40.25A in this case, that why they recommended 40A ESC. With this, u need to watch out the discharge rate, taking 2200mA 20C, it can discharge at 44A if there is such draw... so, when u put the wrong prop. (load), the motor will tend to draw more current, in this case, the batt. can support, so.. 44A (assuming over load) is drawn, then... ESC burnt...u increase the ESC to 50A... then motor burnt.... got it?

By the way, I never come across electronic device with more than 100% surge tolerance; 180A with burst current at 360A?! Unbelievable...

Motor-ESC-Batt Discharge rate are all inter-related, u need to balance the configuration... it is not just simply plug in the high power motor, or using high current rating ESC or using high C batt. etc.... the result will be costly when the matching is wrong. Hence, go and find out more about the motor that u used then we can figure thing out. Cheer.

[Adrianli]

Now then I see the type of boat u running.



Specifications:
Length - 950mm(Hull) Total 1055mm
Beam - 255mm
Weight:2.1kg
Item need to complete:
Speed Controller - Water Cool 90 Amp.
Servo :9kg high torque.
Motor - B4563 brushless.
Hull Material - Fibreglass (FRP)
Propeller - 2-Blade Copper Propeller
Battery - 2x 11.1v 3Cells in series 4000 -5000Mah Lipo.
Radio - 2 channel

[RC1054]

Hi Dting26,

Tks a lot for the advise. Will check the motor spec and do the calcultion again. Tks again.

[RC1054]

OK. What about this set-up.

1. Motor : Leopard 4082/1.5Y, 4.66HP, 2200KV, 150A max, 3500W
2. ESC : Castle Hydra HV 240A, 12000W, 16HP
3. Lipo : 5S2P 10000mA 35C (same as before)
4. Prop : X433 (same as before)

So base on 3500W and 150A the max voltage is 3500/150 = 23.3V. So running on 5S => 21V with correct prop size the motor should not draw more that 150A. The ESC is capable of handling 240A and the 5S2P lipo has a capacity of 350A. The max rpm=21*2200=46200.

Looks OK right?

The Castle Hydra doest not have BEC. Just nice for my set-up.

[Mel279]

OK. What about this set-up.

1. Motor : Leopard 4082/1.5Y, 4.66HP, 2200KV, 150A max, 3500W
2. ESC : Castle Hydra HV 240A, 12000W, 16HP
3. Lipo : 5S2P 10000mA 35C (same as before)
4. Prop : X433 (same as before)

So base on 3500W and 150A the max voltage is 3500/150 = 23.3V. So running on 5S => 21V with correct prop size the motor should not draw more that 150A. The ESC is capable of handling 240A and the 5S2P lipo has a capacity of 350A. The max rpm=21*2200=46200.

Looks OK right?

The Castle Hydra doest not have BEC. Just nice for my set-up.

bro

get the 1500 or 1600kv motor, 2200kv is too hot setup

[Adrianli]

OK. What about this set-up.

1. Motor : Leopard 4082/1.5Y, 4.66HP, 2200KV, 150A max, 3500W
2. ESC : Castle Hydra HV 240A, 12000W, 16HP
3. Lipo : 5S2P 10000mA 35C (same as before)
4. Prop : X433 (same as before)

So base on 3500W and 150A the max voltage is 3500/150 = 23.3V. So running on 5S => 21V with correct prop size the motor should not draw more that 150A. The ESC is capable of handling 240A and the 5S2P lipo has a capacity of 350A. The max rpm=21*2200=46200.

Looks OK right?

The Castle Hydra doest not have BEC. Just nice for my set-up.

Electronics looks good for SAW runs. But prop too small to push a 900mm boat. U need at least a 42mm dia prop.

The amp draw is also affected with the selection of prop. Bigger prop will draw higher amps.

[Adrianli]

However, ur setup will not achieve 100km/h. See attached FE Calculator.

U will need to go HV to achieve that.

[Dting26]

OK. What about this set-up.

1. Motor : Leopard 4082/1.5Y, 4.66HP, 2200KV, 150A max, 3500W
2. ESC : Castle Hydra HV 240A, 12000W, 16HP
3. Lipo : 5S2P 10000mA 35C (same as before)
4. Prop : X433 (same as before)

So base on 3500W and 150A the max voltage is 3500/150 = 23.3V. So running on 5S => 21V with correct prop size the motor should not draw more that 150A. The ESC is capable of handling 240A and the 5S2P lipo has a capacity of 350A. The max rpm=21*2200=46200.

Looks OK right?

The Castle Hydra doest not have BEC. Just nice for my set-up.

Here's my assessment;

1. Motor : to reach 3500W with max current, u need 23.3v.. so 5S is fine
2. ESC : it can support up to 12S batt., Max. current is 240A.
3. Lipo : max. current discarge is 350A

Everything will be fine but except when it is over-load;

* the motor need more power to cope... it draw more current
* the batt. u used able to supply ... in fact more than what the motor (max 150A) and ESC (240A + 20%) can take.

With the above, you should be able to tell the possible damage....

Now, u need to ensure you put in the right size of prop. to achieve what u want yet it don't over drive the motor that u used, this you have to check it out... it have to do with the size and weight of your boat.

Good luck. Cheer.