Flaps and navigational lights

[blueangel]

Some "ambitious" project for new plane, please share your ideas.

I am planning to get a new Cessna plane( foam ) tomorrow ( ) from our LHS and start assembling it. But I would like to make flaps for the plane while working on the assembly lines.

I have some experience on throwing flaps around with my EasyStar, which make use of the ailerons to work as flaps too. The flaps works great, slowing the plane down during approach and didn't have much problem at all.

However since I make use of the ailerons for flaps, I cannot roll the plane much at all since the ailerons are all down. The mixing from my DX6i still allows some small movement from the aileron ( which is now flaps ) but the servo throws will be maxed out as soon as I roll the plane.

EasyStar original designs uses the rudder to induce rolls for the plane to turn. What was possible on an EasyStar is probably non-applicable on a Cessna plane because rolls will need to be positively controlled by the dedicated ailerons for a Cessna. That is my guesstimation of a Cessna from my experience flying the Estarter - it really need aileron to turn the plane. Rudder is absolutely ineffective for these planes.

I am guesstimating, the surface area should be at least equal or larger than the ailerons surface area to be effective ?

Thinking of how do I wire up the flaps to the servo horns.

Anyone did flaps for their planes I would appreciate their contribution or pictures


If the flaps can be built and work, will be interesting to see how it land and take off.

I like realism and scales pretty much, that is why I try to make for a realistic landing , try to avoid belly landing.

Below is a sketch design for the flaps. Red will be flaps. Green is going to be the original aileron.


And yes, where can I get those bright blinking green and red LEDs ? I don't need a roll of it, just 1 bulb each per port and starboard.

Then, how do I connect these LED to the receiver so that I can turn them on with my landing gear switches on the transmitter since it is unused, while my flaps switch will be meant for the flaps, of course.

[JieZ]

How come the flap is so much bigger as compared to the aileron?the famous hk site have ready made light kit.

[blueangel]

How come the flap is so much bigger as compared to the aileron?the famous hk site have ready made light kit.

Duno.. I guess. BTW, that flap I'm not going to cut it off from the wings' surface. I am making an additional piece of plastic / foam sheet and hinge it on the underside of the wing.

Don't want to jeopardize the structure rigidity of the wings.

Light kits.. can make ? SimLim got lots of powerful LED, but dunno how to wire them up.

[jansonfinn]

Duno.. I guess. BTW, that flap I'm not going to cut it off from the wings' surface. I am making an additional piece of plastic / foam sheet and hinge it on the underside of the wing.

Don't want to jeopardize the structure rigidity of the wings.

Some cessna brand will includes the flaps in the wing. It is a matter of installing a servo for it n cutting it out to hinge it.

[JieZ]

Duno.. I guess. BTW, that flap I'm not going to cut it off from the wings' surface. I am making an additional piece of plastic / foam sheet and hinge it on the underside of the wing.

Don't want to jeopardize the structure rigidity of the wings.

Light kits.. can make ? SimLim got lots of powerful LED, but dunno how to wire them up.

Can make.If non flashing i think u just solder them up in parallel.I think cutting a small piece out wont make a difference.

[Nicholas]

ive been thinking about the NAV lights thing aswell ...

And all i got was this 40SGD thing from RTR which is damn expensive for afew lights ... but it does however give as quoted from the webby :
2 - Red Beacon
2 - White Strobe
1 - Red Navigation Light
1 - Green Navigation Light
2 - Land Light

and you still gotta buy/make your own wires if the wire length provided isnt long enough!

tempting? haha , if you use the Simlim way and DIY, the cost will be like half of what RTR charges you!

im still in the process of figuring out how to make the lights strobe though im a noob at electronics ...

[khpan2003]

Duno.. I guess. BTW, that flap I'm not going to cut it off from the wings' surface. I am making an additional piece of plastic / foam sheet and hinge it on the underside of the wing.

Don't want to jeopardize the structure rigidity of the wings.

Light kits.. can make ? SimLim got lots of powerful LED, but dunno how to wire them up.

can mod a old servo to do the work to use it to on/off the light thru your tx/rx

[blueangel]

I do have some broken gear servos.. how do I do that.. any links ?

As for the flap, its not going to be smaller than the aileron as mentioned. So I am required to cut a piece of additional plastic / foam about 2 square-inch size and hinge it.

If get those super bright LED from SimLim, it will only cost about $0.10 each.
My concern is how do I provide a safe level of current and voltage without using up too much of my Lipo for more important purposes such as receiver voltage level, motor and servos..

[Crafter]

Describe your lighting requirements

Hi Blueangel,

As for separate flaps and aileron controls, personally, I would go back to separating the flap and the aileron channels (not use flaperon mixing), then use the flaps channel just for the flaps, and apply differential aileron control with a single servo (aileron channel) and setting up the aileron linkages to get aileron differential. I believe you already know the purpose of aileron differential. I know this is contrary to today's popular practice of using a servo for each aileron to get the differential effect, but what to do.... :> Oh, I think the single aileron servo may have to be up-speced in terms of torque so that driving both ailerons does not overload it. Anyway this is just my personal view.

As for your lighting needs, the best way to control lights is with a proper Rx-switch circuit, without any need for a 'servo to move a mechanical switch' kind of compicated set up. Good Rx-swtiches can handle around 30A which is more than what you need. I did see such devices at a popular overseas site, and it may even be available here. A few LEDs do not consume a whole lot of power, but if you are worried about overloading your main power source, a small separate battery (under 500mA or even less) should be sufficient. In fact a single LiPo (1S) cell at 3.7V may be enough for those ultra-bright LEDs, if connected in parallel. It's a good idea to place a current-limiting resistor so you don't overdrive your LEDs. Don't be surprised that good ultra-bright LEDs cost somewhat more than 10cents a piece, but man are they bright (blindingly so) :>

BTW, exactly what kind of lighting patterns are you thinking about, flashing or steady-on, colours, etc? How about describing it in detail?

Cheers.

[blueangel]

Crafter your knowledge surpasses me.. don't quite get what you mean by setting up differential on the flaps and aileron.

What does it do, because I though a flap is simply a toggle switch - Up or Down , and the angle of deflection is determined by the travel of the servo, which I can trim from my transmitter ?

Do you mean that with flaps on differentials, when I move my ailerons, the flaps will also trim up and down ?

The navigational light would be always on and blinking. Anyway, I did some searching in forum and website but I finally decided not to built it since I really don't want to buy IC chips to solder on circuit boards. That is when I saw ready made navi lights from a LHS, I just take out my cash and buy it. Cost wise would be probably 4 times more expensive, but looking at the mess of wirings and the surface mount circuitry board, I got a little relieve that I don't have to spend few nights soldering and wiring them up.

[Jack_Chen]

there is a well known HKG website that has the cessna you want. flaps and nav lights and landing lights too.

on the other hand, i have also ordered their nav/landing lights too. Let's just say, it's not even 15SGD but is almost a complete clone of the 40SGD one.

as much as I would like to support Singapore hobby shops, I work in an industry with fierce international competition and the market is literally global. So I believe in free borderless trade.

May the best hobby supplier win!

[blueangel]

I support LHS.

Here is a video on the final works of the navigational lights installed under the wings.

The 2 red beacons ( glowing ) is suppose to be for and aft. But I hooked it to the rear of the wings instead. I have yet to have a proper and neat way to run the 2 wires to the rear stabilizer and nose ( where they are suppose to be on a real plane ).

End up the plane looks like a x'mas tree. But the lights are taped down temporarily, allowing me to reposition them if necessary. For now, it will look like this in the video ...

( Taken with camera phone, so the quality is quite lousy )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDArfy8vAQg

Attached are some final shots of the plane. I always take picture before maiden. Who knows what will happen...

OK, the spinners are a bit oversized, but I liked the streamlined look.

Props might look good if painted white. I will do it tonight

The wheels are 60mm. Bigger that the stock, so I hope it can ROG and land on the field.

[JieZ]

I support LHS.

Here is a video on the final works of the navigational lights installed under the wings.

The 2 red beacons ( glowing ) is suppose to be for and aft. But I hooked it to the rear of the wings instead. I have yet to have a proper and neat way to run the 2 wires to the rear stabilizer and nose ( where they are suppose to be on a real plane ).

End up the plane looks like a x'mas tree. But the lights are taped down temporarily, allowing me to reposition them if necessary. For now, it will look like this in the video ...

( Taken with camera phone, so the quality is quite lousy )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDArfy8vAQg

Attached are some final shots of the plane. I always take picture before maiden. Who knows what will happen...

OK, the spinners are a bit oversized, but I liked the streamlined look.

Props might look good if painted white. I will do it tonight

The wheels are 60mm. Bigger that the stock, so I hope it can ROG and land on the field.

That looks like a E-Starter to me.Looks almost the same!

[Nicholas]

I support LHS.

Here is a video on the final works of the navigational lights installed under the wings.

The 2 red beacons ( glowing ) is suppose to be for and aft. But I hooked it to the rear of the wings instead. I have yet to have a proper and neat way to run the 2 wires to the rear stabilizer and nose ( where they are suppose to be on a real plane ).

End up the plane looks like a x'mas tree. But the lights are taped down temporarily, allowing me to reposition them if necessary. For now, it will look like this in the video ...

( Taken with camera phone, so the quality is quite lousy )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDArfy8vAQg

Attached are some final shots of the plane. I always take picture before maiden. Who knows what will happen...

OK, the spinners are a bit oversized, but I liked the streamlined look.

Props might look good if painted white. I will do it tonight

The wheels are 60mm. Bigger that the stock, so I hope it can ROG and land on the field.

lookin good , i think i'll buy it as well ...
now lets see that maiden video !

[Crafter]

Crafter your knowledge surpasses me.. don't quite get what you mean by setting up differential on the flaps and aileron.

What does it do, because I though a flap is simply a toggle switch - Up or Down , and the angle of deflection is determined by the travel of the servo, which I can trim from my transmitter ?

Do you mean that with flaps on differentials, when I move my ailerons, the flaps will also trim up and down ?

The navigational light would be always on and blinking. Anyway, I did some searching in forum and website but I finally decided not to built it since I really don't want to buy IC chips to solder on circuit boards. That is when I saw ready made navi lights from a LHS, I just take out my cash and buy it. Cost wise would be probably 4 times more expensive, but looking at the mess of wirings and the surface mount circuitry board, I got a little relieve that I don't have to spend few nights soldering and wiring them up.

Hi BlueAngel,

No, please don't say that. It's the other way around I think. I just happened to read about the subject but haven't really put it to practice like you. I'm mostly theory only, but hope to try one day :> Sorry for the confusion. Let me try to clarify.

Basically I meant operate the flaps with its own dedicated channel, and the ailerons with another dedicated channel. The two controls de-coupled (not mixed as in Flaperon mixing) and able to operate independently of each other. I'm no aviation expert, but I believe both left and right flaps generally deflect the same amount together in the same direction, unlike ailerons, so 'differential' would apply only to ailerons, not the flaps.

I'm not sure about the Spektrum Dx6i channel assignments, so I'll use my Hitec's channel assignments as example. Hitec assigns channel-1 for the both ailerons (1-servo aileron setup), or to operate the Right aileron only, in a 2-servo aileron setup, with channel-6 used to operate the Left aileron if some aileron-mix is enabled. In a 1-servo aileron setup, channel-6 is normally assigned as the flaps channel. So in my case, I would use channel-1 to control a single servo to drive both ailerons, with the linkages setup to provide aileron differential throws. Then I would use channel-6 to control the flaps servo only. So the two functions are seperate. Perhaps other more experienced flyers can comment on this better than I.

Aileron Differential
Aileron differnetial is used to reduce the effect of 'adverse yaw'. On planes with partial-span ailerons towards the wing-tips, like the Cessna, when it needs to roll to the right for example, the Left-aileron deflects downwards, while the Right-aileron deflects upward. Due to the airfoil profile of the wing, the downward Left-aileron tends to create more drag than the upward Right-aileron. If both ailerons deflected the same amount, the greater drag at the left wing-tip area may tend to cause the plane the yaw to the left, when you actually intend to turn to the right. This phenomenon is called adverse yaw. Aileron differential, that is, applying less downward deflection than upward deflection, helps to reduce adverse yaw. This is a simplified explanation only. You can probably find more of this on the 'net. There's an article in Model Airplane News (June 2008 issue) on the topic of aileron differential, and the various ways to set it up. You should be able to find the mag in Queenstown library.

Yes, it does look somewhat like an E-starter. But that's not important as long as it flies well :>

OK, hope I clarified my muddle. Cheers!