Hey everyone (My Predicament)

[kamale]

Finally found a forum to share my interest/new found hobby.

So anyway just a short intro I'm 28 year old quadcopter enthusiast. Ever since I was a kid I had been fascinated by RC cars/heli/planes. But quadcopters really hit my G"rc"spot haha.

So currently I have a few questions don't know if someone can shed some light on them. Recently well not too long back I got myself an AR drone V1, i know its outdated but it was cheap. Its my first quadcopter ever so anyway the annoying bits,

1. Flight time (Didn't know they were so short haha but its ok)
2. 3rd time flying under my block, got egged on by a friend flew it almost up to the 12th floor and slammed into the wall came falling down tried catching it, broke the prop gear and shaft.
3. Dislike controlling it using my phone.

So to remedy these things I've been considering looking for a bigger battery + spareparts saw em on ebay alot and I'm considering getting this http://www.ebay.com/itm/Parrot-AR-Dr...:X:RTQ:US:1123 On the other hand I feel like just scrapping this ar drone maybe try and sell it off cause i mean its spanking new just for the broken prop gear and shaft, and buying a proper beginners quadcopter which is RTF. Not too expensive though coz im still new and dont want such a big heartache if it crashes. Got the Aerosky h100 in mind but not sure if locally they sell them.

Questions that come to mind when i first came to this forum was:

1. Flying is restricted at certain times of the day???
2. There are fields you can't fly unless your a member of some group or club?!?!?!
3. Why isn't there a good proper RC shop locally that does repairs or sells spareparts or you know what I mean
4. FPV IS A NO NO AMONG AUTHORITIES?????

Haha sorry for the long post, do feel free to comment and give me advice and thanks for reading.

[Aramid]

Questions that come to mind when i first came to this forum was:

1. Flying is restricted at certain times of the day???
2. There are fields you can't fly unless your a member of some group or club?!?!?!
3. Why isn't there a good proper RC shop locally that does repairs or sells spareparts or you know what I mean
4. FPV IS A NO NO AMONG AUTHORITIES?????

1. Flying is restricted only by your ability to properly control your aircraft. If you can't see it because it is getting dark, you need to pack up.
2. There are a lot more fields where you can fly without being a member of any group.
3. It's a hobby, learn to do your own repairs, because you will crash. Local hobby shops do sell parts, but they may not have what you need or want. There are a million and one online stores selling stuff related to this hobby.
4. FPV what?

If you want a proper quadcopter at a reasonable price, here's something that is balanced between performance and cost:

Radio: Turnigy 9XR + FrSky DJT module + DRII Plus Receiver + Turnigy 9XR 2200mAH Transmitter Pack = USD$116.14
- you can use the radio even when you've reached 'advance' level

Flight Controller: HK KK2 Flight Control Board = USD$29.99
- arguably the best flight controller in terms of price/performance/ease-of-use; easy learning curve, allows tuning in the field without a computer

Speed Controllers: Afro ESC 30A x 4 units = USD$55.96
- the speed controller is one of the best in the market for multirotors

Motors: Sunnysky x2212 980kv x 4 units = USD$78.99
- no motor comes close in terms of price/performance

Frame: DJI F450 Frame kit = USD$40
- easy to build and find parts

TOTAL (without propellers, batteries, and charger) = USD$321.08
- yes, this is twice the price of the Parrot AR Drone you saw, but this combo is multiple times the fun

For the above setup, get 10x4.5 props. There are different kinds, but start with plastic/nylon while you are learning. These are relatively inexpensive, so buy lots, because you will crash.

For your batteries, get something between 3000-3700mAH 30C or higher. Get at least 3, or more if you can afford it. Get a decent charger, even the basic ones will do you good for now.

Learn to build the items above and build it yourself, even if you have friends who can. That's part of the hobby, and you need the skill to do your own repairs. Youtube is a great resource, make use of it. If you got more questions, just ask in the forums.

[diverboy75]

+1

Not that i know the stuff or am a pro, i am pretty much a newbie i consider but i like the effort you placed in to share the knowledge

[feudallordcult]

aramid, thank u for the great tips. Very grateful.

[kamale]

Thank you very much aramid, fantastic advice. Will start doing further studies and investing in building one, so sick of this parrot LOL

[kamale]

Its always got to build from ground up so you know the ins and outs of your quad, but was wondering would getting a DJI phantom be an ok way to go? I'm going insane over it LOL With the gimbal and go pro addon its really awesome.

[Aramid]

Its always got to build from ground up so you know the ins and outs of your quad, but was wondering would getting a DJI phantom be an ok way to go? I'm going insane over it LOL With the gimbal and go pro addon its really awesome.

The DJI Phantom is a good multirotor platform, but it has its limitations. It is also relatively expensive, so it might cause you a bigger heartache when you crash (and you will crash). I just witnessed a Phantom go down over the weekend in one of the flying fields.

You may not realize this yet, but will probably thank me in the future if you heed this advise:

1. start slow - I know how you feel, I've been there, but don't rush. It'll only cause unnecessary expenses. You are acting on so much emotion right now, but the truth is you don't know what you want yet in this hobby, so dip yourself slowly and do not jump in the pool. Do not put a gopro until you are confident enough to manage a crash. Don't ask me how I know.
2. learn the basics - this hobby requires you to be a builder, not just a user of the technology; it will be so much easier once you are faced with problems. Unlike cars where you do not need to be a mechanic, there are no shops around that will fix and tune your quad for you, and if there are, it will cost you.
3. research - know your equipment intimately, know what others are using successfully in the same scenario/situation and how they manage through the limitations.
4. learn to fly - GPS and stabilized/attitude modes have their rightful place, but do learn how to fly with minimal flight controller interaction via rate/manual modes. That might save your quad (or other people/yourself) one day.

[kamale]

The DJI Phantom is a good multirotor platform, but it has its limitations. It is also relatively expensive, so it might cause you a bigger heartache when you crash (and you will crash). I just witnessed a Phantom go down over the weekend in one of the flying fields.

You may not realize this yet, but will probably thank me in the future if you heed this advise:

1. start slow - I know how you feel, I've been there, but don't rush. It'll only cause unnecessary expenses. You are acting on so much emotion right now, but the truth is you don't know what you want yet in this hobby, so dip yourself slowly and do not jump in the pool. Do not put a gopro until you are confident enough to manage a crash. Don't ask me how I know.
2. learn the basics - this hobby requires you to be a builder, not just a user of the technology; it will be so much easier once you are faced with problems. Unlike cars where you do not need to be a mechanic, there are no shops around that will fix and tune your quad for you, and if there are, it will cost you.
3. research - know your equipment intimately, know what others are using successfully in the same scenario/situation and how they manage through the limitations.
4. learn to fly - GPS and stabilized/attitude modes have their rightful place, but do learn how to fly with minimal flight controller interaction via rate/manual modes. That might save your quad (or other people/yourself) one day.

Thanks Aramid, man now i feel like i kinda wasted a buttload of cash. I recently went to order a macgyver mod for my drone and some spare gears and shafts to replace the broken one on my drone now. Wish I didn't and ordered the stuff you said, i guess for now I can train a little with the drone since its got a certain mode where it doesn't hover automatically you gotta handle it yourself.

I'll probably have to slowly collect the stuff bit by bit due to $$$ reasons but thank you so much for all your advice man =)

[kamale]

Hi Aramid, silly question but all those parts like the KK2 and such could you briefly tell me what they do basically on a quad. Like during flight what does it do exactly, i know theres google but I'd rather hear it from a pro veteran such as yourself hahaha.

So basically from my understanding on a quad you need:

Control + Transmitter
Reciever
Speed controllers

[Aramid]

Hi Aramid, silly question but all those parts like the KK2 and such could you briefly tell me what they do basically on a quad. Like during flight what does it do exactly, i know theres google but I'd rather hear it from a pro veteran such as yourself hahaha.

So basically from my understanding on a quad you need:

Control + Transmitter
Reciever
Speed controllers

Hi Aramid, silly question but all those parts like the KK2 and such could you briefly tell me what they do basically on a quad. Like during flight what does it do exactly, i know theres google but I'd rather hear it from a pro veteran such as yourself hahaha.

So basically from my understanding on a quad you need:

Control + Transmitter
Reciever
Speed controllers

Lol, I'm just a noob, still just learning like you, but perhaps with a little more build experience, crashes, and stick time under my belt.

To fly a quad, you need the following hardware as a minimum:

1. frame, either a kit or DIY
- the frame greatly determines the flight behavior of the quad, whether it will be good and stable for aerial photography, or nimble and fast for fast-forward-flight, or agile and tight for close in acrobatic ones (Warthox style)
- the factors at play in the design vs. purpose involves the frame's symmetry, centre-of-gravity, centre-of-thrust, arm length, deck space for electronics, weight, stiffness, durability, frame material, vibration-reduction, and ease-of-modification
- parts availability must also be a consideration, because crashes do happen
- e.g., DJI F330, F450, TBS Discovery, QAV400/500/540G, ADS400Q, RD450, Dialfonzo Hunter V-tail, and many others

2. flight controller (FC)
- this piece of hardware uses the control inputs from the Tx along with gyro and sometimes accelerometer data into the appropriate signals for the motors and ESCs, allowing the quad to change its attitude according to the set flight mode behavior
- there is a huge range of FCs in the market, from simple ones with only gyros and accelerometers, to those that interface with GPS, magnetometer (compass), barometer, and other optional components like sonar, telemetry radio, and others
- this is usually where most of your hardware tuning time goes into; some are easier to tune than others
- e.g., KK2, Naza, CC3D, Naze32, APM, other Multiwii boards, Wookong, and many others

3. speed controller (ESC)
- takes the 'processed' control input signals from the FC and converts them to electrical currents that drives the motor's rotational speed
- most ESCs also contain a second component called the battery eliminator circuit (BEC), that can provide some amount of DC power to any of your on-board electronics; in most cases, this usually powers the FC and Rx
- BECs comes in two flavors, linear or switching, with the latter being more electrically efficient but potentially RF noisy
- ESCs without BECs are usually called OPTO ESCs
- most ESCs typically used for multicopters were designed for planes, hence the need to 'mod' them for multicopter use for more efficiency and better performance
- this 'mod' is done by changing their settings through firmware updates, typically with SimonK, BLHeli, or wii-ESC, depending on the chipset
- some ESCs are already sold pre-flashed with SimonK
- popular ones are the HK F-series and BlueSeries, Turnigy Plush, DJI Opto, AfroESC

4. brushless motors
- provides the thrust for the multirotor by spinning the propellers
- the motor's rotational speed is directly controlled by the ESC, via inputs of the FC and the pilot
- there's a huge range of motors available on the market, so getting the right spec for the purpose is important
- technical considerations should be rpm/kv, maximum capacity, and weight, and impirical data on thrust using different propellers, bearing quality, and just overall feel
- generally, low rpm/kv motors will have greater torque, allowing bigger propellers, better power efficiency, but at the expense of maneuverability and stability
- must be checked for balance

5. propellers
- spun by the motors to push air, providing thrust
- must be properly matched with the motor's technical specs to get better efficiency
- there are generally two different designs used in multirotors: slow-fly and e-props (or commonly called Graupner-style)
- e-props usually have a thrust equivalent to a slow-fly that's one size smaller, but e-props provides more stability due to higher rpms vs. thrust
- materials can be plastic (flexy, but more resistant to minor hits, cheap), carbon fiber (stiff and strong, but breaks when hit, expensive), or a combination such as the Gemfan carbon-nylon mix, or wood
- must be laterally and radially balanced to get good performance and avoid vibrations
- for multirotors, and equivalent number of clockwise- and counterclockwise-rotating props are usually used, except on odd-numbered multirotors such as tricopters or other non-standard design

6. radio control receiver (Rx)
- receives the control inputs from the pilot through the radio control transmitter (Tx) and passes the signal to the flight controller or other on-board peripherals (e.g., lights, alarm, servo, etc.)
- must be matched and bound to the Tx for it to work
- there are different radio technologies available, but the most common one is the 2.4Ghz, frequency-hopping spread spectrum (FHSS) type
- some Rx are also transmitters, sending telemetry information back to the Tx or other receiving device on the ground
- most quads would be needing 5-channels on the Rx, at the minimum - 4 for aileron, elevator, throttle, and rudder controls, and 1 for flight modes; additional channels may be needed for other capabilities and/or on-board items
- popular ones are Futaba, FrSky, Spektrum, JR, Hitec

7. radio control transmitter (Tx)
- the hardware interface that the pilot uses to provide control input to the quad
- some Tx devices accepts radio modules, which provides the primary radio transmission (e.g., Turnigy 9XR with Frsky module), or as an alternative device (e.g., Futaba 10C with a Flytron OpenLRS module), or to extend the features (e.g., Frsky Taranis with a XJT module, providing a total of 32-channels)
- see Rx for other notes

8. batteries
- powers all the electronics, on the air and ground
- battery capacity and rating must be properly matched to the expected power draw from the motors and other electronics
- some prefer LiFe batteries, but most stick with LiPos

Lol, this now reads like an intro to basic multirotors. Anyway, I hope the above is helpful to anyone trying to get into or just starting out in the hobby. There is so much depth to this hobby and the above information is just barely scratching the surface. Each of those numbered items are huge topics in their own right, spawning even more subtopics and lengthy discussions.

[kamale]

Aramid, your post should be a stickied for new guys man thank you so much and seriously I hope to join you if you ever do go for a flight. Can't wait for my temporary repair of my drone to arrive, then I can join in haha with my tiny drone.

[i luv rc]

1. Flying is restricted only by your ability to properly control your aircraft. If you can't see it because it is getting dark, you need to pack up.
2. There are a lot more fields where you can fly without being a member of any group.
3. It's a hobby, learn to do your own repairs, because you will crash. Local hobby shops do sell parts, but they may not have what you need or want. There are a million and one online stores selling stuff related to this hobby.
4. FPV what?

If you want a proper quadcopter at a reasonable price, here's something that is balanced between performance and cost:

Radio: Turnigy 9XR + FrSky DJT module + DRII Plus Receiver + Turnigy 9XR 2200mAH Transmitter Pack = USD$116.14
- you can use the radio even when you've reached 'advance' level

Flight Controller: HK KK2 Flight Control Board = USD$29.99
- arguably the best flight controller in terms of price/performance/ease-of-use; easy learning curve, allows tuning in the field without a computer

Speed Controllers: Afro ESC 30A x 4 units = USD$55.96
- the speed controller is one of the best in the market for multirotors

Motors: Sunnysky x2212 980kv x 4 units = USD$78.99
- no motor comes close in terms of price/performance

Frame: DJI F450 Frame kit = USD$40
- easy to build and find parts

TOTAL (without propellers, batteries, and charger) = USD$321.08
- yes, this is twice the price of the Parrot AR Drone you saw, but this combo is multiple times the fun

For the above setup, get 10x4.5 props. There are different kinds, but start with plastic/nylon while you are learning. These are relatively inexpensive, so buy lots, because you will crash.

For your batteries, get something between 3000-3700mAH 30C or higher. Get at least 3, or more if you can afford it. Get a decent charger, even the basic ones will do you good for now.

Learn to build the items above and build it yourself, even if you have friends who can. That's part of the hobby, and you need the skill to do your own repairs. Youtube is a great resource, make use of it. If you got more questions, just ask in the forums.

Hi Aramid, I would like to ask if soldering is required for the above setup. Thanks

[Aramid]

Hi Aramid, I would like to ask if soldering is required for the above setup. Thanks

With the above hardware, yes, it is possible for a soldering-free build. You just need this:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__25480__XT60_to_4_X_3_5mm_bullet_Multistar_ESC_Power_Breakout_Cable.html

-or- this:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__25483__HXT_4mm_to_4_X_3_5mm_bullet_Multistar_ESC_Power_Breakout_Cable.html

These power distribution cables connect your ESCs to the battery. Of course, this means that you should get lipos that have the XT60 or HXT 4mm connectors pre-soldered, or use an adaptor if the connectors are Deans or something else.

[i luv rc]

With the above hardware, yes, it is possible for a soldering-free build. You just need this:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__25480__XT60_to_4_X_3_5mm_bullet_Multistar_ESC_Power_Breakout_Cable.html

-or- this:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__25483__HXT_4mm_to_4_X_3_5mm_bullet_Multistar_ESC_Power_Breakout_Cable.html

These power distribution cables connect your ESCs to the battery. Of course, this means that you should get lipos that have the XT60 or HXT 4mm connectors pre-soldered, or use an adaptor if the connectors are Deans or something else.

Thanks so much! I am interested in building my first quad but have no soldering skills...

[kamale]

Hey aramid, found this guys step by step tutorial on building a quad from scratch, do you think following him would be a good start? this is the part one video. Would be easier for a beginner like me if there was visual aids like what he has done =)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVxZE0CEUaA