Trex Nitro and Electric

[alloy]

Ermm... i think this one u ask him urself better haha haha.

[kenkoh]

OPS !!! paiseh.. Let u guys see my shy T700.. so shy he hides on the shelf for 3+ mth to collect dust... have to walk between my car and the shade 4 times just to unload my stuff (actually i walk 3 times, aloy help me one time) !!! too troublesome lah...

I guess i still prefer electric, 1 time can liao, left hand carry t500 & protos, right hand my tx & batt bag. Hands are clean, plug-and-play, hit-and-run quickly!!

Dun know when will i fly my t700 again?? up in the shelf again liao.. may collect more dust this time

[alloy]

Something cock up i think, i see repost.

Anyway, bro serpent, dont like that lah, 600 ESP if i buy sure end up with 2 600 helis. Plus i will need to buy more batts that look like a brick haha. Then i will need 1 more hyperion duo or maybe 2. Actually I really like my 600N very much leh, i learn almost every 3d maneuver from that heli one. But the T500 made me change my perception on ep helis totally, very diff from the 450s. Jus now i was jus discussing with helirulz on the diff with ep heli and the nitro ones, especially so when we are executing more challenging 3d maneuvers that involves a great deal of precision and sharp response from our helis. The verdict quite clear. But a bit unfair since its beween a 500E and 600N. But i still love my 600N nonetheless, got lots of sentimental feelings attached to it. If the 600E can pump up till it respond and punch like the 500E, wah seh, that one really really power house liao. I reckon with the pace of current technology, it surely will be realized in the very near future at a very affordable price.

[tucfaz]

EP and Nitro powered offer the same performance, while if either one is not set or tuned properly, then that's a different issue.

Alloy.

You've already got the perfect combination of 700N, 600N, and 500EP.

You're right. 500 can not be the same as 600. They're after all of different size and speed. one flyes like a mosquito (Light and agile). the other flies like a dragon fly. (more predictable easier to catch).. Not saying these insect can do backward or inverted flight thou..

But for sure, if you're focusing on practicing your maneuvers, then you'll obviously want something that can give you longer and more consistent flight. While when time is not a luxury. Then an EP can really come in handy for lubricating your fingers..

Although nitro are expensive.. between $40 - $60 per gallon, but that's really not the point, as EP can be equally costly if you want a proper setup, while it's not much more convenient. With nitro, you got all the oil stain, with EP, you get all the messy chargers setup, and it's complicated procedures. Hence, at the end of the day. They're all the same (but sound different) But having said that. I'm still on the lookout for a good cost effective electric setup which can give me a consistent 6 minutes flight.

The trouble I have with my Nitro heli is that.. I always forgot to switch off my charger after full charge to my RX lipo pack, and leave the charge running over night, and this killed one of my 2s pack (Flight power branded one somemore. Heart pain. cost me one gallon of fuel).. While I cannot afford an intelligent charger with auto cutoff..

[edmond22]

I beg to differ on the difference between EP and Nitro. I have 2 of the same size, 50. And my thoughts are that the power feel is for sure different.

Electric
Electric spoils you. Power comes on much more quickly and more readily. The way to describe it is something like this, You have a balloon full of air fixed on a cart. Once you let the "trapped" energy go, you get it the max full power at start and ends with a diminishing curve. In another word, you will often want to do more heavy moves like tic toc at the beginning than end. Also EP helis, depending on your setup has a certain threshold limit, once you demand pass that level, you will bog that heli, most people go more S in batts to get over that. Now for the current ESP stock setup, the power level may feel close to 50 nitro size but dun get misled by it. If you can hold good collective management, you can get away with it. But if you demand pass that threshold and bog the heli, the only way to get back the headspeed is to relax manuever you are doing and it is this part that differentiates it from Nitro most. With Nitro, you can give it a quick "breather" there and here and recover HS and you can do it so well that even onlookers won't even notice. EP ones, everyone can see. EP ones will always work well during the initial cycle of its battery life. One will notice that it will sag with time and perform worse and worse.


Nitro
This is the other way round. This is not trapped energy, you need to work it like manufacturing where you put all the raw materials of fuel, air and fire to make energy. In this aspect, you will notice slower power response (as with any other engine). You can tune it as best as you could to get power, but it comes no where close as eager as EP ones. I think it is in fact more boggable than electric but it is also easier to recover HS when bogged. The best time to execute power demanding manuevers is when you are getting lower and lower on fuel. It is leaner, lighter and def more powerful, completely opposite of EP. Nitro power gets better with flight time, and is consistent all the time every flight. You do not need to worry about battery age.


My above observation so far having logged equal flights both EP and Nitro regularly.

[HotDogBun]

For some, I believe going EP will mean lots of messy wires.
And others like the feel of nitro on their hands.
For myself, messy wires will be a sore to Mrs and danger to Jr.

So this is how I keep my chargers, 2 of them

[tucfaz]

The world fastest electric car. The Shelby Supercars can sprint 0-60mph in 2.5 seconds with 208mph max speed

The Bugatti Veyron (Gas): can sprint 0-60mph in 2.5 seconds with max speed of 253 mph+, and this is listed as second fastest.. as the fastest, which I think is the petrol version of the shelby electric. the SSC Ultimate Aero can clock 257 mph+, 0-60 in 2.7 secs.

OK. That's comparing power plant, while I believe lot's of effort will be made to level or even better the performance.

Switching back to Heli mode Nitro engine have to be tuned right to get good performance, while I must agree that it may be a lot easier on EP as tuning are electronic. Hence, no need for Kung Fu master kind of skill.. like see, hear, touch, smell whatever.. which is super troublesome.. But once we get it right, then it flies and does what you expect it to do. But having said that. EP also require good skill and knowledge, as it require proper motor and ESC match, correct battery placement and type, correct curves setup etc.. etc.. Both have their down side, and both have their do's and don't like never to fly till need to draw from header tank Never over drive and discharge your lipo etc..

BTW. The Shelby Supercars can be charge up from mains within 10 minutes, and have a range of between 150 - 200 miles.. This is one hell of a car..

[Serpent]

I beg to differ on the difference between EP and Nitro. I have 2 of the same size, 50. And my thoughts are that the power feel is for sure different.

Electric
Electric spoils you. Power comes on much more quickly and more readily. The way to describe it is something like this, You have a balloon full of air fixed on a cart. Once you let the "trapped" energy go, you get it the max full power at start and ends with a diminishing curve. In another word, you will often want to do more heavy moves like tic toc at the beginning than end. Also EP helis, depending on your setup has a certain threshold limit, once you demand pass that level, you will bog that heli, most people go more S in batts to get over that. Now for the current ESP stock setup, the power level may feel close to 50 nitro size but dun get misled by it. If you can hold good collective management, you can get away with it. But if you demand pass that threshold and bog the heli, the only way to get back the headspeed is to relax manuever you are doing and it is this part that differentiates it from Nitro most. With Nitro, you can give it a quick "breather" there and here and recover HS and you can do it so well that even onlookers won't even notice. EP ones, everyone can see. EP ones will always work well during the initial cycle of its battery life. One will notice that it will sag with time and perform worse and worse.


Nitro
This is the other way round. This is not trapped energy, you need to work it like manufacturing where you put all the raw materials of fuel, air and fire to make energy. In this aspect, you will notice slower power response (as with any other engine). You can tune it as best as you could to get power, but it comes no where close as eager as EP ones. I think it is in fact more boggable than electric but it is also easier to recover HS when bogged. The best time to execute power demanding manuevers is when you are getting lower and lower on fuel. It is leaner, lighter and def more powerful, completely opposite of EP. Nitro power gets better with flight time, and is consistent all the time every flight. You do not need to worry about battery age.


My above observation so far having logged equal flights both EP and Nitro regularly.

We started learning to fly with Nitro helis... till today... we still enjoy flying it.
However,getting to fly an electric heli has open up a new chapter in heli flying experience, which in the past was a "crazy" idea , especially for a 600 size.
Haha, I have said this before somewhere that "what is crazy today may be anorm tomorrow"

No one is suggesting whether a Nitro or Electric is better, it is something we just cannot stop sharing the new experience of flying a 50 size electric heli.

Ed,

very good description of the difference in feel between a Nitro and EP helis.
One has to taste different variety of wine before one can tell the difference right ?
I guess one man's meat is another man's poison.... but in the heli world, poison means better than meat. Haha.

[johndyl]

got new toys on my t5... 4 new things in fact...

[bell206]

Look at this layout - so neat and plenty of space left to put the esc and battery. With the spartan or gy520, lagi better.. so tempting nowadays to go for electric..

[Serpent]

Something cock up i think, i see repost.

Anyway, bro serpent, dont like that lah, 600 ESP if i buy sure end up with 2 600 helis. Plus i will need to buy more batts that look like a brick haha. Then i will need 1 more hyperion duo or maybe 2. Actually I really like my 600N very much leh, i learn almost every 3d maneuver from that heli one. But the T500 made me change my perception on ep helis totally, very diff from the 450s. Jus now i was jus discussing with helirulz on the diff with ep heli and the nitro ones, especially so when we are executing more challenging 3d maneuvers that involves a great deal of precision and sharp response from our helis. The verdict quite clear. But a bit unfair since its beween a 500E and 600N. But i still love my 600N nonetheless, got lots of sentimental feelings attached to it. If the 600E can pump up till it respond and punch like the 500E, wah seh, that one really really power house liao. I reckon with the pace of current technology, it surely will be realized in the very near future at a very affordable price.

Eventhough I have been posting lots of stuffs about EP , I still enjoy flying my Trex600N one hor
I figure that if I need to practice a new maneuver, I will fly the Nitro, as you get more flight time per fill up.
If I just want to fly around in between errands or in some public fields , electric will be a good option.

Having said that, I will be flying more nitro this weekend, need to practice some piro maneuvers.hehe.

[Serpent]

Look at this layout - so neat and plenty of space left to put the esc and battery. With the spartan or gy520, lagi better.. so tempting nowadays to go for electric..

Bell, is this going to be your next project ?

[bell206]

Bell, is this going to be your next project ?

Certainly very tempting.. worth considering. What puts me off is the sound of the 690 blades spinning at high rpm - have not heard but can imagine.

Why not you sell me your engine and you go for it?

[johndyl]

Look at this layout - so neat and plenty of space left to put the esc and battery. With the spartan or gy520, lagi better.. so tempting nowadays to go for electric..

wow that's a lot of room!!

[alloy]

Wahh, i think i accidentally opened up a can of worms

Basically i have flown both ep and nitro, not too many diff makes and models but still can differentiate abit lah. Both have their good and bad points i must say, which is why i guess this is still being debated upon. Tucfaz , edmund and serpent have all made their points and all of u guys are right in a way.

Tucfaz point is correct in a way. Proper tuning from an engine is definitely essential to squeeze out the juice from it and it still can punch well if its a big size engine like the 90s. But due to power and weight ratio problem, plus response lag, 50 sizers will seem a little sluggish especially in our hot climate. But the 90 i still enjoy it very much. Really good power. Big, stable and powerful. Havent seen a 90 ep that can perform like this yet. If u guys got jus post me a link, im interested to read up on it.

Price wise per flight, difficult to comment cos nitro price always hover around the same undeserving high price range recently so its easily calculated to be about $4 per flight of 20% nitro on a 50. But Ep price per flight are considerably lower if u choose the non expensive one. Z brand hehe. So cost per flight will vary differently for the ep if u want the expensive $300 per batt versus the $80 per batt. The flight time perflight is also quite diff between ep and nitro.
Some ppl love undisturbed 8min flight and nothing less, so i guess cheap ep is out, cos the batt packs that can sustain such long flights and under 3d demanding condition will be exorbitant if there is. Some ppl eg ken, wants pure power, 4min no prob, gimme a good quality pure power 4min can liao. Thats also y he always wants me to throw away my 600 . For me during training on new maneuvers, i will use my 600N. It jus gives u longer uninterrupted flying which is essential for ur fingers, eyes and brains to do the hardwiring process. Sure its a little sluggish and slightly less responsive, but it jus trains us to be even more intuitive and work our brains, eyes fingers and instinct faster to compensate for it. After that fly the ep to further refine and polish things up. It allows u to execute the maneuvers in more daring and precise locations and height since it will respond readily. Can use N to do also but need to be a little more careful loh.

Nitro no need to charge and invest in expensive electronic stuff. No need to worry about batt failing or swelling. No need to charge, no need to wait Long flight time etc. Most importantly, i dont have that very expensive batt risked being tacoed or punctured during a nosedive crash. New pack, see how u will cry. No need to wonder, its damn easy to kena one since most batt packs are strapped right in front to correct CG. For nitro, at most $4 spill off or lost loh.

Ep, no mess, no smell, plug and play, clean setup. Buy a good charger and it will pay for itself in time to come. Get a good esc and u will find that live is easier when doing motor pairing and batt life maintenance. Flight characteristics will definitely improve too. Not the style or skill level but jus the flight power and throttle respond. Buy a few more inexpensive batt packs versus 1 expensive batt and u will have much more flight per trip to the field. Heli CG will not change through the flight. Basically, try not to stinge on the electronic equipment for EP, not worth it. Thats except batt. I recently changed my mind for that If use often enuf, the expensive stuff will pay for itself in terms of ease and lack of problems. I have witnessed my friends plane burning in mid air due to the lousy esc that he is using. Everything gone in less that 60 secs.

Like edmund says, and i agree, ep delivers readily, no lag. Both E and N will still bog if u pull hard and long enough. But with a good engine properly tuned and experience fingers, the nitro can behave jus as well as an ep, again like wat edmund has said. But then ep will be more straight forward, less collective management needed. This is also why i keep telling serpent and helirulz that im utterly spoilt recently by my 500. Must fly my 600N more dilligently. Its def a heli that ppl should fly to know more in depth about flying and power discipline. Its like running with weights for training and then suddenly running wo them.

I tend to feel that nitro still have something in it that makes me still want to keep it. The smoke and the sound, the realistic power respond, i.e throttle respond lag. Nothings can replace it. The ep is smooth as butter, delivering power so graciously and readily. Its like manual and auto car lah. One is damn shiok to drive but another is so much more convenient.

End of the day, 500 size ep is good for its power to weight ratio. 600E/N both still have around the same power delivery, only biggest difference is its readiness, aka responsiveness. For 700 i will stay with nitro, u jus cant beat that sound and smoke. Hahaha. Today jus witness a 90size ep in flight. My dear friend set his t curve much much too low and that thing will still float man. Sounds ok, not that intimidating, in fact serpents 600E sound more fierce haha, i guess its due to the HS. Flies quite well, but i did not see him push his heli lah, so cannot comment on its power.

Lastly and most importantly, Ti Gong Bo Bi me dio Dua Cai first prize. I want all the helis, in my eyes both EP and Nitro are good and complements each other under diff conditions and situations.

Ok end of story, paiseh long winded