Different soldering techniques

[Erling]

Hello there.

My question may be freak, but I'm really interested in answer.

In my country (I'm from Russia) electronics hobby took roots very long time ago and during Soviet period it was thoroughly supported by government. So there are some traditions (traditional techniques) which were established in last hundred years of electronics hobby in my country.

The thing is my fellow citizen almost never bring solder directly to the wire by hand (or another detail) while tinning. We usually take some solder with the soldering iron tip (not just tin the tip, but actually load tip with necessary amount of solder) and touch with the tip detail that is to be tinned. Then we slightly move tip along the detail, helping solder to flow. The same thing with PCBs: we usually bring solder to the joint with the tip. This method has obvious advantages:
- you don't need "helping hand" device;
- it takes less time as you don't need to heat the detail before applying solder: detail gets warm enough during as you apply solder and move tip along the detail;
- as you don't need to heat detail before making joint, you have less chances to overheat the detail. That may be not very important while soldering wires, but that gets important if you make point-to-point circuitry, which contains semiconductor elements, which can be overheated easily.

So, once I decided to watch YouTube and know how you, western guys, make soldering. I was very surprised to see that technique when solder is applied directly to the joint by hand (or with helping device) is a sort of "orthodox" among electronics hobbyists and professionals.
I've watched about 30 vids about soldering techiques. 28 of them demonstrated "direct applying" technique and only 2 of them taught viewer to bring solder with the tip.

"Direct applying" example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L61LJcz7H6g Look at this man (watch from 6:10). Joint he made is awful! He was trying to heat up the wire for more than a minute. I think it's just fail.

"Loading the tip" example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Z8CzB4BYJAWatch from 2:10. Soldering is instant.

So my questions are:
1. Why "direct applying" technique is so popular?
2. Do you ever bring solder to the joint/wire with the tip? Or you always use "direct applying" technique?

I'll be grateful for your answers.

P.S. I've tried "direct applying" technique in my home laboratory and I have to admit it's not bad, but I still don't think it has serious advantages.

P.P.S. http://cxem.net/beginner/beginner85.php - that's how we usually make soldering. It's in Russian, but I think video is enough. Watch from 16:30.

[foxkilo]

It's quite interesting, the technique you mentioned. Need to note that we're not exactly the "West" as you mentioned!

I suppose it works if you know what you're doing and what to aim for in the soldering process, and might be better when soldering tiny components where they can be heated up quickly.

But beginners tend to have these problems with bringing (melted) solder to the components to be joined... because then they try to "paint" the melted solder on the components (using the soldering iron like a paintbrush, and the melted solder is the paint!) and it doesn't work. The solder refuse to stick on to the components if the components are not heated enough. Resulting in bad joint.

Also the time taken to bring the solder to the joint... all the while the flux is evaporating. By the time you try to apply the solder on to the joint, not enough or no flux left, also causes bad joint.

[Super-Hornet]

I only view the last video u provided and starting around 15++ and this is what I can say:
The video shows what appeared to be using amber (tree sap) to provide the tin (solder) assist. With amber the solder will stick better.

From the view, suspect of using soldering to melt solder and bring it to wire is because, the solder shown in the view is just a solder wire. So you heat up the wire using soldering iron to melt the amber lump. The amber will then cover/coated the hot wire. By doing so, when the soldering iron tip with solder can easily solder the wire.

Now... over here and in most country that I know of... the solder we use is actually a solder (like 60% tin, 40% lead to be detail) in a tube shape. That is, the solder wire is actually hollow inside. Inside the solder wire (the hollow part) is actually filled with amber. Because of that, you do not need to coat the wire with amber 1st. Because of that, normally we solder by bringing the soldering iron tip with the solder together instead. The soldering iron tip will melt the solder and because the amber is inside the solder wire, the amber will melt as well, together with the solder. Thus, it became a mixture of molten solder and amber. So, the end process is the same.

Because of the amber is in the solder wire, that is why for those people who are not really good at solder that, he/she heat the solder too long, the amber already evaporated away (or burned to blacken colored..full of oxidize)...And the quantity of amber inside the solder wire is depend on how big (diameter) the solder wire is. The bigger the diameter, the more amber quantity it is.

[buratino]

Dobro Pozarovat Tovaris Erling, I think I do soldering the same way you described, and I learn part from my father, some from youtube. I think the same technique is used everywhere and very common. If I remember correctly there is youtube video to teach how to solder in American School and they also did the same way as you do.

[Erling]

Need to note that we're not exactly the "West" as you mentioned!

I'm just kidding with Cold War terms. USSR is east, others are west. Just stereotype, take it easy ;)

The video shows what appeared to be using amber (tree sap) to provide the tin (solder) assist. With amber the solder will stick better.

Usually it's called rosin Pure rosin is the most popular flux in USSR/Russia, primarily because it's cheap and easy to produce at home, but now it's just a habit. As for me, I use modern flux.

Also the time taken to bring the solder to the joint... all the while the flux is evaporating. By the time you try to apply the solder on to the joint, not enough or no flux left, also causes bad joint.

You're totally right. To be fair, starting this topic I had already guessed about reason of using direct applying technique, but anyway I wanted to discuss advantages and disadvantages of different techniques.

Right, orthodox "direct appliers" explain it in this way:

"never bring the solder to the work on the tip!!!! by the time it gets there all the flux ( rosin) has burnt off and you will almost always end up with a dry joint
Very Very bad!!"

But this argument is valid only if we're talking about soldering without using additional (separate) flux (if we depend only on flux, placed in core of solder).

Applying some good additional flux onto the surface which is to be tinned (or to the PCB pad), we don't depend on core flux anymore. Additional flux won't evaporate too quickly and bringing solder with the tip becomes quite proper way of soldering.

Risk of oveheating is not higher than with direct applying technique: bringing flux with tip provides good heating square, detail becomes heated instantly and you don't need to hold tip near detail for too long. Just like at the second vid.

Other arguments of "direct appliers" are "better contol of amount of solder" (pff, I have no problems with loading tip with necessary amount of solder) and better wetting (lies. If you bring solder with tip and us additional flux, wetting is great).

Dobro Pozarovat Tovaris Erling, I think I do soldering the same way you described, and I learn part from my father, some from youtube. I think the same technique is used everywhere and very common.

Spasibo, druzhishe) You're right, preferable soldering technique is often a matter of habit: those who learnt from "tip loaders" will use this technique on :very_drunk:

Now... over here and in most country that I know of... the solder we use is actually a solder (like 60% tin, 40% lead to be detail) in a tube shape. That is, the solder wire is actually hollow inside. Inside the solder wire (the hollow part) is actually filled with amber. Because of that, you do not need to coat the wire with amber 1st.

Thanks, I know about flux-core solder. Because I use it myself ;) But core flux doesn't completely eleminate need in additional flux.

I think both techniques are good, but I can't understand those "direct applyers" who believe that direct applying is the only proper way.
I believe bringing solder with the tip is more quick and more simple way (and joints made by it aren't worse than those made by direct applying).

[foxkilo]

...
Usually it's called rosin Pure rosin is the most popular flux in USSR/Russia, primarily because it's cheap and easy to produce at home, but now it's just a habit. As for me, I use modern flux.
...

Just curious... how do you produce rosin flux "at home"?

Yes, as you said, as long as there is plenty of flux available, you can almost always get a good joint, because you can re-melt and re-flow the solder. I've also fixed bad joints before by applying some flux directly, then re-heating the joint to let the solder flow again. It works.

Additional advantage is that you don't need an extra "hand" (3rd hand) to hold all the pieces together.

All this sharing of info is interesting, particularly since we rarely hear from people from your part of the world, and due to language barrier

[delta]

great... but does anyone know where i can get flux from singapore???

[foxkilo]

great... but does anyone know where i can get flux from singapore???

Hardware stores will sell. Look for soldering grease or soldering paste. Usually comes in flat round cans.

[Erling]

Just curious... how do you produce rosin flux "at home"?

I've never tried it myself, but I know people who have. Just collect resin from firs or pines, then put it into metal can and heat it up. Temperature mustn't be too high because resin mustn't catch fire. As resin boils, remove foam and junk that will emerge. Turpentine will evaporate as resin will boil. When smoke from turpentine will be over, stop heating. Let rosin get cold. At the output you will have amber-like solid mass. Ta-da-a, rosin is ready

If you want to have liquid or jellylike flux, solve rosin in etanol. The more etanol, the closer rosin will get to become liquid.

Yes, as you said, as long as there is plenty of flux available, you can almost always get a good joint, because you can re-melt and re-flow the solder. I've also fixed bad joints before by applying some flux directly, then re-heating the joint to let the solder flow again. It works.

Additional advantage is that you don't need an extra "hand" (3rd hand) to hold all the pieces together.

Right!)

All this sharing of info is interesting, particularly since we rarely hear from people from your part of the world, and due to language barrier

We have many RC fans, but their community is well developed and they prefer talking among themselves at russian forums
I will be glad to share information

[delta]

Hardware stores will sell. Look for soldering grease or soldering paste. Usually comes in flat round cans.

any specific shop name?? eg.homefix or someting??

[buratino]

Hi Delta, how r you, still flying on sat?

You can buy flux at Simlim tower (B1), there are many shop selling good soldering stuff there.

[delta]

hi yup i am still flying on saturdays.did not see u for the past few days anyway also wanted to get a ultra micro from u.i just checked sim lim tower and he says he is out of stock its ok i will just order it online.:smile3:

[mave]

I like this video clips. seems to make soldering look like magic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uiroWBkdFY&feature=fvwrel

sim lim tower basement and third floor will have a lot of soldering equipment and consumables. I will be surprise if all of them are out. check them out.
Goots is on the basement level

[delta]

i had only checked out just 1 shop as i had no time i went there later again at this basement shop name space electronics and brought 50 g from them for $4.00.

[yhchoong]

I suppose if you use good flux, you can simply load the correct amount of solder onto the tip of the iron and directly apply it.

Example of how it works: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Z8CzB4BYJA