What does copyright means???

[Adrianli]

I bought a Tibo mths back, however the loaded map is not updated to the current roads ard SG. I called up the distributor and had a conversation with the technical support staff. The topic of copyrights came up in our conversation when I request a map editing software so that I could edit the maps in my Tibo rather than rely on them for updates.

My arguement is I bought the Tibo with SG/MY maps loaded so I am free to edit it in whatever way I like. I gave the example of a hardcopy of the street directory. I buy it from the bookstore, I can use a marker to draw on the map to indicate new roads being built. I am in no way committing a copyright offence as tis is for my own use.

However he said I only bought the map and do not own it so they cannot allow me to edit the map as I will be committing a copyright offence. He said only the owner of the map is allowed to do any editing not the person who purchase it. I replied that this is totally ridiculious, I bought the map, I should be able to do anything wif it as long as I do not copy n re-distributing it.


From Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright

Copyright is a set of exclusive rights regulating the use of a particular expression of an idea or information. At its most general, it is literally "the right to copy" an original creation. In most cases, these rights are of limited duration.

From Statutes, http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/non_versi...st&method=part

Offences
136. —(1) A person who at a time when copyright subsists in a work —

(a) makes for sale or hire;

(b) sells or lets for hire, or by way of trade offers or exposes for sale or hire; or

(c) by way of trade exhibits in public,

any article which he knows, or ought reasonably to know, to be an infringing copy of the work shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding $10,000 for the article or for each article in respect of which the offence was committed or $100,000, whichever is the lower, or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years or to both.

And more, please refer to website.

From IPOS, http://www.ipos.gov.sg/main/aboutip/...ght/intro.html

COPYRIGHT :
INTRODUCTION

Copyright protects works like novels, computer programs, plays, sheet music and
paintings. Generally, the author of a copyright work has the right to reproduce, publish,
perform, communicate and adapt his work. These different exclusive rights form the bundle of rights that we call copyright. These rights enable a copyright owner to control the commercial exploitation of his work.
Copyright is a form of property. It can be licensed or transferred, either as an entire bundle (all of the different rights under copyright) or as a distinct, individual right within the copyright bundle (e.g. only the right to reproduce).

For a work to be protected by copyright, it has to be original and expressed
in a tangible form such as in a recording or in writing. Originality simply means that
there is a degree of independent effort in the creation of the work. It is not a question
of whether the work has creative merit or not.



Please advise whether I can edit the map or not for my own use.

Thks

[HZM]

IMO if they give you the editing right, they are afraid you will "do minor" changes and if you are enterprising enough you probably able to publish your own map without infringing copyrights regulation. Perhaps you go through their fine prints to see if they indicate they will not give you editing rights. A statement like tat will stop ppl from legally pursuing the matter with them

Keep us posted, I always enjoy reading "your encounter"

Mike

[awesome]

i think the risk is you re-selling it and claiming that it orignated from you..

also, its probably their business strategy..you buy the original package and they want u to pay annual fees for updates, patches, etc..quite common these days..like those antivirus softwares..

[9VDXN]

Adrian,

The copyright in that way they are referring to is like an intellectual property right. Mapping info, or GIS as they called it now is an intellectual property.
The developers spent time, effort, research & money to draw the map as accurately as possible from the raw data, which is from satellite. They have to align the maps, calibrate them, and even to vectorise them so that you can zoom in without loosing details.

The 'Maps' that they have, they are treating it like a piece of 'software'. By asking them to allow you to edit their map, it is like asking Microsoft to release to you the source codes for Word just because you don't like the color of the windows tab or something similar.

The same theory applies for Streetdirectory.com or any road map books. The content & maps belong to the publisher. If you rip off like 5% of the content, it is considered a violation of copyright law. Generally, because it's not worth to sue a single user due to the violation, nobody wants to take any action for such minor things....but if you're operating as a company and you rip off my intellectual property, then KAAAA--CHINGGG!!!! $$$$$$$$




I use GPS since there was no such things as in-built mapping functions, and i think those still works great. Garmin mappable GPSes does have some free Singapore & MY maps for downloading, but details are not as good as those Tibo or Mapking versions.
However, the advantage is that they have editable mapping info.

[Super-Hornet]

Yes.... it is like typical Windows applications. What they worry is that u might use it to modify and redistribute it. It is not "copyrights" that u are not allow the change the map. It is what u can do after that. So, the person talk to u is either mis-understanding on the copyrights thing but they have the rights not to give u the editor software free.

That is the reason I like about open source in Linux. Almost all open source applications u can get the source code and change it as u like...so long as u have to include the originator (creator) name or rights.

SH

[9VDXN]

Copyright, Trademarks, Patents, etc... are all under the generic term of Intellectual Property Rights.

All these laws are designed/implemented to protect the original creator/developer/inventor.
If no such laws exist, and anyone can just rip something off another person (eg. China? ), why should any company or individual waste their time, effort, research, and even money to be developing a new product?



Back to the GPS topic, if you treat these specialised Tibo/Mapking as a piece of software, then you will know why you are not allowed to change anything.
There are other mapping softwares that you can actually scan your own map, calibrate it and use it as your base map. Some are actually freeware...just do a search..

[Adrianli]

I'm meeting tis technical guy Sat morning to resolve my problem so I need some knowledge on such laws b4 dicussing further with him on editing of maps.

The have a counter at the Motorshow.

Should I just go to the Motorshow, bang table infront of everyone n make a big hooha there abt Tibo compared to Garmin to get noticed??? Later kena chase out!!!

[Adrianli]

Dixon,

A map editor can have its restriction too. It can only allow the user to add roads and POI (Points of Interest) only without actually giving me any source code. Something like SimCity???

It really boils down to their approach of a user frenly software.


FYI, I waited for 3 mths already since they last promise me to give me an updated map!!! My house n most of Sembawang is not indicated in the Tibo. I have been staying here for 1.5yrs liao. Thatz why I now pursue them to solve my problem instead of wait for our updates, we'll call u type of response. Furthermore there is a subscription period for these updated maps, I juz wasted 3mths for waiting.

[9VDXN]

If you really need to know the copyright laws in detail, you need a lawyer who specialises in IP law liao...I am just a kuching kurap who briefly studied IP law, mostly media related, back in my school days.


But since you installed the software or purchased their products, you cannot argue anything because ultimately, you have agreed to their "Terms & Conditions". So unfairly, by default, you have accepted their product. :P


What you can suggest is that to allow users to have a 'mapping overlay'.
ie, if you think of photoshop layers:
- 1st layer = Base map....user cannot edit themselves.
- 2nd layer = Path plotters....GPS automatically plots your path
- 3rd Layer = Waypoint info or POI
- 4th layer = Overlays...user can draw, make own marking, etc...


In Garmin mappable gps, layer 1, 2 & 3 are already in existance...only layer 4 that I've suggested can be implemented in PDA styled GPS systems.

In the GPS software that I have on my Mac based computer, I can have up to plenty of overlays as much as I want, all layers can be calibrated to the precise co-ordinates. I used to scan Topo maps, stitch them up and calibrate them myself, then overlay them with my collected waypoints, etc... very old school method of GPS usage, which was unlike the convenience of today's Mapkings, AGIS or Tibos, but they're very limited in terms of functions..

[9VDXN]

Oh yes Adrian, try http://www.malsingmaps.com

They have what I think you need since a few years ago, and the mapping database are all updated by users themselves. Perhaps you should just sell off your Tibo and change to an 'open' system instead of wasting time talking to them.

[Adrianli]

I know of malsing maps.

I did compare between Garmin n Tibo b4 buying it. Tot Tibo has all the technical support here so should be better then I bought it.


But now if anyone ask me for opinion, go get Garmin coz can use malsing map.

[9VDXN]

hehehe, yeah...that's why i hated all the so-called 'propeitary' systems....prefer traditional, single-functioned, open systems like Garmins...

Coz if I'm going out to sea, i can always load in my marine POI, if I'm driving, i can load in road maps....and they're all 'switchable' within the unit if you have enough memory to store the maps.....and if u end up a place where u totally have no mapping info, you can still use them as a traditional hand-held GPS.

[Adrianli]

Juz an update,

I have my Tibo updated yesterday and was pleased that now the roads do appear on the Tibo. However the blk still non-existence. They promise me they would do it at their next available update. There some pretty nice features added too, like detailed map of Penang n Malacca and better 3D view with big arrows to turn right or left.

Talked to them n their maps are really layed type as described by Dixon.

Overall, now its much better after my wif them. I tink they each time I called them for updates.


Now think of my next move, persuading them to allow user to edit the map!!!

[chilll18]

The last time spoke to the GM Mr. Mah about inputting speed camera he say cannot due to some garmen ruling but the Vitos GPS set my friend has will inform you of stationary speed camera when you are there and when you are going up bridge or into tunnel it will inform you also the Tibo always chose to skip the tunnel don't know why.

Last update done in sept mention that will have another update in Nov 2006 with more detail map on Penang and Malacca but did not hear from them . Just notice that my Tibo set does not have all the school poly in the POI . What the hack poly is so common now in Singapore and it is not in the Tibo .

Juz an update,

I have my Tibo updated yesterday and was pleased that now the roads do appear on the Tibo. However the blk still non-existence. They promise me they would do it at their next available update. There some pretty nice features added too, like detailed map of Penang n Malacca and better 3D view with big arrows to turn right or left.

Talked to them n their maps are really layed type as described by Dixon.

Overall, now its much better after my wif them. I tink they each time I called them for updates.


Now think of my next move, persuading them to allow user to edit the map!!!