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  1. #46
    Gold Member Heli_fanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrianli View Post
    Dear Mr Yap,

    Can you clarify whether you or any BBAFC members have approached the non-paying member personelly not to fly at BBAFC premises???
    Just a neutral comment . About three weeks or so before the competition(3DX) , i wanted to fly at BBAFC to familiarize myself with the field , not knowing that non-members are not allowed to fly there , i was then approached by the clubs chairman himself and he then told me , that i am not allowed to fly there in a nice manner . Since then , ive not stepped into the flying field besides the 3DX event itself .
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  2. #47
    Senior Member Murdanny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrianli View Post
    Dear Mr Yap,

    Can you clarify whether you or any BBAFC members have approached the non-paying member personelly not to fly at BBAFC premises???

    Is there any discussion between the BBAFC commitee members b4 YOU putting up the notice in this public forum???

    Please kindly state your purpose of putting up that notice in this thread.


    Thks in advance for a clarification.

    Regards,

    Adrian Lee
    Before i mention anything, it is with all due respect and i do not mean to hurt anyone in whichever ways. We all love to fly and the place we fly at. I mean no disrespect and it is of my personal opinion.

    1) Like i have mention, we all love to fly. Personally, i do not think that all of us will have this burning passion and desire to fly if it is not for the friends we made to fly with. i think most aeromodellers in this forum would agree with this statement. I am happy, to have participated in the recent 3DX. I got to meet new friends, special mention to Ian, Jeremy and Mr Imran whom have shown great sportsmanship. Oh, and not forgetting kiratime flying helex during the EP drag race.

    What i am trying to say here is that the members of the club is not trying to chase non-members away. In fact, we would encourage more people to come join the club. Be it beginners or professional, fixed wings or rotary wings. BBAFC is an aeromodelling club trying to promote aeromodelling as a sport in Singapore. As BBAFC being a part is of the Aeromodelling Federation of Singapore (AFS), it is important we follow the club's rules and regulation.

    Thus, Mr Lee, as per your first question : 'Can you clarify whether you or any BBAFC members have approached the non-paying member personelly not to fly at BBAFC premises???'

    Personally, I have not witnessed any of the members telling non-paying members not to fly at BBAFC premises. But i am confident, that if there is a need to do so, we will do so nicely and politely and get a mutual understanding between each other about this particular rule.

    2) To be honest, the BBAFC committee board became 'official' during the club's barbecue/ night flying session, which was approximately 3 months before the 3DX Singapore 2008. Mr Yap had a tiny meeting with all the people that have turned up for the barbecue. One of his agenda was to form a solid committee to help him out for future events, one of which was the recent 3DX. Fortunately, a group of volunteers volunteered to give help and commitment to the club whenever time permits. It was at that eventful night that we decided to hold a local 3D competition in the month of june with an objective to introduce, encourage and expose local 3D pilots to the public.

    Mr Yap, without any delay, emailed the newly formed committee members. Our meeting table was actually through emails and instant messaging. Mr Yap had been swift in making decision only through agreement from his committee members, be it small or critical decisions.

    Therefore, Mr Lee, as per your second question : 'Is there any discussion between the BBAFC commitee members b4 YOU putting up the notice in this public forum???'

    It is understandable between members that non-members of BBAFC are not allowed to fly in the club premises, due to insurance coverage, etc etc. Mr Yap, however, did sent an email to all the existing members of BBAFC regarding this issue. Like mentioned, in my previous post, you do not expect a non-member of a country club to play golf in their course. Paying the membership fee would certainly help the club financially for maintenance or event purposes.

    3) All in all, Mr Lee, your curiosity : 'Please kindly state your purpose of putting up that notice in this thread.'

    Having said so much, i think it is understandable by now that the purpose is to enforce the club rules and regulations. We do not mean no harm to any aeromodelling enthusiasts. In fact, we will want to encourage more.

    Like you Mr Lee, you love your flying fields as much i love the places i fly at. For me it would be woodlands and BBAFC. Not for its environment but for the ambiance.

    I hope i do not cause further dispute. Singapore is very small, what more aeromodellers in our tiny country?

    Happy flying,

    Danny.
    Kedi AH !

  3. #48
    Gold Member tucfaz's Avatar
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    Wow!!.. What happen??

    Guys. Some members here are actually on a mission to promote Aeromodeling sports. In fact. Lot's have been done for the benefit of the entire community. ie, it's not just for the club only.

    Initial effort have been put in place to try to bring the community together. and yes, people can say that these effort may benefit the club in the long run, but BBAFC is after all a non profit organization.

    The recent judges line up for the recent 3DX already shows that the "Organizer" have already taken the initial step to try to bring our local community to a new level.

    As for non-paying members. We do have many non paying members who eventually sign-up as members after a few visit, while we also have non-members with knowledge of the club rules will still fly there although after several hints.

    Yes, the Chairman may be thick skinned to have made use of DH to make such announcement, and the webmaster may have missed out publishing such rules in the website. As firstly. As mention, the club is on a mission to promote aeromodelling sport. hence, do welcome and encourage more new visitors. But having said that. The more experience modelers here should know best. For example the 3DX competitor being told to sign-up. These members should have known that.. without funding. There's no way to run the competition successfully, while without the general public, there will be no sponsors support.

    As for Bishan flying field. The AFS does encourage new club to be form. Hence, people at Bishan should consider setting up a club there. But depending on the objective. Bishan is suitable for EP models, while Nitro are out of bound etc.. But while we want to promote aeromodelling sports. The doors have to be open to international competitors where most will bring in 90 size Nitro helis or Nitro planes etc.. But having said that. Bishan may have their own mission.

    Also. AFS vision is to have competition held centrally, where all clubs will participate in the same competition, thus creating a Carnival style event.

    Enough said. As discuss amoung committee members. The club is open to new members, and the reason for a club to exist is for the reason of promoting what the club is being form for.

    I believe those in the know may feel offended when told about the non-member rules, while those new to this sports will understand.

  4. #49
    Another neutral comment.. i dont see the need for any debates.. this is a hobby after all.. just have fun.. each and every individual groups prob have some cultures which may not always be accepted by another (ive been joining different groups). As long as they're happy and hopefully practice safety in their group.. dont think theres a need to debate?
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  5. #50
    Senior Member Murdanny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CKS View Post
    Another neutral comment.. i dont see the need for any debates.. this is a hobby after all.. just have fun.. each and every individual groups prob have some cultures which may not always be accepted by another (ive been joining different groups). As long as they're happy and hopefully practice safety in their group.. dont think theres a need to debate?
    Agreed !
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  6. #51
    Gold Member tucfaz's Avatar
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    This is not a debate. It's more of a discussion.

    In fact. There is a need to discuss some issues. Again, depending on individual mission and intention.

    Such discussion will help individual group decide if it's best to have many flying field all over the island, and how they can manage safety, and report of any dangerous activity which may jeopardized the community image.

    Also. Such discussion will help trash out any misunderstanding and misconception some "individual" may have.

    Lastly. We cannot "hope" for people to practice safety. What happen if they don't.. Move away and go to another field??



    Quote Originally Posted by Murdanny View Post
    Agreed !

  7. #52
    Gold Member tucfaz's Avatar
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    BBAFC is a non profit organization BTW. I think the club don't make any profit..

    Also, if there's any subtle marketing.. If the club is successful. Will benefit the LHS. Not the club. As every new member we couch will be ask to sign up for an account in DH for information to LHS and information.

    Lastly. Are you a BBAFC member? and have you been one of those that have been told you're not allow to fly if you're not a member? I guess you would have access to the many PM in this server as I believe you're affiliated to DH? or you may want to do some check on some new member here if anyone of them have been referred to DH by BBAFC members.

    BTW.. Subtle marketing?. if you're not affiliated to DH.. Then you're the one doing subtle marketing.. with www.xoluxion.net all over your post..



    Quote Originally Posted by genexis View Post
    yapjy:

    http://www.daddyhobby.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9710

    and please, after reading it, don't try to play around with words.

  8. #53
    Gold Member tucfaz's Avatar
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    Adrian,

    bbafc.org is a website that can be viewed from any part of the world.

    One of the club main objective is to encourage new members or people who have never even flown a PiccoZ.. and with all clubs, readers will understand that they need membership to access to a "club", and it's for the general public to read further to find out more about the club.

    FYI. We do have new members who are foreigner, and these expat. will usually pops in for a visit and later start a conversation, where they eventually have sign up as members.. and FYI. These members have always been advise to sign-up with DH, where one have actually bought a Trex600N through MP.

    JY is only acting on feedback from members who have seen people bringing their groups of "customers/friends" to the field turning it into their own training facility..

    JY intention was that of alll be nice, and let him handle the non members issues.


    Quote Originally Posted by Adrianli View Post
    So why was this notice not posted on BBAFC website initially instead of posting it here??? The last I checked, 1min ago, the website news was last updated in march 2008.

    Please see attached screenshot.


    Danny, if you are part of the committee member, can you please answer my enquires directed at Mr Yap since he decided to disengage from tis discussion. Thks.

  9. #54
    Gold Member genexis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tucfaz View Post
    BBAFC is a non profit organization BTW. I think the club don't make any profit..

    Also, if there's any subtle marketing.. If the club is successful. Will benefit the LHS. Not the club. As every new member we couch will be ask to sign up for an account in DH for information to LHS and information.

    Lastly. Are you a BBAFC member? and have you been one of those that have been told you're not allow to fly if you're not a member? I guess you would have access to the many PM in this server as I believe you're affiliated to DH? or you may want to do some check on some new member here if anyone of them have been referred to DH by BBAFC members.

    BTW.. Subtle marketing?. if you're not affiliated to DH.. Then you're the one doing subtle marketing.. with www.xoluxion.net all over your post..
    I was deciding to let the issue end since Yapjy decided that he had enough of all these. No point going on arguing with you since my point is towards yapjy and you apparently missed the whole point and started a lot of assumptions which is really insulting the integrity of the forum. For you sake, i shall state this clearly now.

    This started because of a post by him telling people in the public forums that they are not allowed to fly in bbafc. Harmless it may seem, but i read it as the club (and as the chairman he represents the club) doesn't want non paying people to fly there. Yet, he is doing little marketing of his own on the forums where its is well known that such marketing needs to go through the proper means. And since he has emailed the admin and has the green light to go ahead, i rest my case.

    And now to answer your questions, you first have to ask yourself if your questions are relevant to this case.

    Firstly, am i affiliated to DH?
    No, i run my business of webhosting independently of DH. I personally do not like the way DH is being ran and made it very clear to the admins before. However, business is business. Friendship is friendship, you may not understand this, so i suggest you stay out of this. Besides, so what if i am, so what if i am not affliated to DH, does this makes any difference to this case? I suggest you think about what is your intention of your question and apologize if you need to.

    Secondly, access to PM:
    Access to PM is a breach of private confidentiality and as far as i am concern, i do not have access. I suggest you make a apology to the admin for such assumptions, and even if you didn't explicitly state that the admin has access to PMs, your intentions are clear.

    Thirdly, for www.xoluxion.net

    I have the green light from the admin to put it in my signature. Previously there was some unhappiness from the vendors that there was a link to another online RC page in one of the links, but that was taken away immediately. I suggest you read point one to understand my intentions of my post to YapJY.

    fourthly, am i am member of bbafc?
    So what if yes, so what if no. What difference does this make? Does it make you special if you are one? Please clarify you intentions of this question.

    On the whole, please try to read the different posts by me on this thread. I'll apologize if my intentions are not clear to you in the beginning, but i hope this clears up.

  10. #55
    Gold Member Art's Avatar
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    I really think all these 'discussions' here is very sad.

    I think

    1) most of you have never met each other before...or even if you have met..you wouldn't know each other well enough for the comments everyone of you posted.

    2) Jun Yi chose to take on as chairman of the club when Walter decided to step down. Before his, walter and pk Lee spent a lot of efforts putting the club together...and maintaining it regardless of financial support from the CC.

    3) Get to know Jun Yi...if you guys know him...you will understand why he did some things he did over here. Different strokes for different folks...every one expresses himself differently...some pple prefer to meet up for kopi...some just type away here to vent frustrations. I think we should all get to know each other before hurling abuses and sarcasm.


    In my course of work...I have to constantly change my character to interact with pple. Likewise in here...when I go to different fields...I talk to different people in different ways. Some like...some hated....

    I suggest leaving the thread as it is...and nt squabble over a club.

    maybe BBAFC can organize something with DH...and members get to know each other better...or maybe we can work together in some future events.

    I am always opened for suggestions by the folks from the vlub..

    If you need www.daddyhobby.com to help promote the club and do some marketing...I am sure the owner will be glad to help if you asked nicely.

    guys...for our passion...lets stop the arguements.

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  11. #56
    Gold Member tucfaz's Avatar
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    Hi. Hope you'll see this as a discussion..

    Your point is toward yapjy?? My point is towards the issue. BBAFC is an officially registered club. hence, it's very important to upkeep it's Integrity. If there are misconception, these have to be trashed. If there are misunderstanding, it's important that these be trash as well.

    back-end server maintainer are known to have access to all information passing through their server. hence, it's no secret. There are company that will state clearly to client that all message passing through the server can be viewed. It will be that the server maintainer have not exercise due diligent if these information are not available to them, as such information can be requested by authority for whatever reasons, and the administrator will be seen as un-corporative if they do not have these information, and worse. cause suspicion, and if you do have these information, then it's for you to know only and not publish such information publicly.. Sorry. Maybe different culture.

    The issue on hand. If you're a member. Then it should not be of much concern to you. If you're not.. A link to membership information will be useful. While, I do agree that there are things we don't know. Hence, should leave it to the mod to decide if the post is in any violation.

    Subtle marketing.. I suggest we not go into this, but for us to go understand what subtle marketing mean.




    Quote Originally Posted by genexis View Post
    I was deciding to let the issue end since Yapjy decided that he had enough of all these. No point going on arguing with you since my point is towards yapjy and you apparently missed the whole point and started a lot of assumptions which is really insulting the integrity of the forum. For you sake, i shall state this clearly now.

    This started because of a post by him telling people in the public forums that they are not allowed to fly in bbafc. Harmless it may seem, but i read it as the club (and as the chairman he represents the club) doesn't want non paying people to fly there. Yet, he is doing little marketing of his own on the forums where its is well known that such marketing needs to go through the proper means. And since he has emailed the admin and has the green light to go ahead, i rest my case.

    And now to answer your questions, you first have to ask yourself if your questions are relevant to this case.

    Firstly, am i affiliated to DH?
    No, i run my business of webhosting independently of DH. I personally do not like the way DH is being ran and made it very clear to the admins before. However, business is business. Friendship is friendship, you may not understand this, so i suggest you stay out of this. Besides, so what if i am, so what if i am not affliated to DH, does this makes any difference to this case? I suggest you think about what is your intention of your question and apologize if you need to.

    Secondly, access to PM:
    Access to PM is a breach of private confidentiality and as far as i am concern, i do not have access. I suggest you make a apology to the admin for such assumptions, and even if you didn't explicitly state that the admin has access to PMs, your intentions are clear.

    Thirdly, for www.xoluxion.net

    I have the green light from the admin to put it in my signature. Previously there was some unhappiness from the vendors that there was a link to another online RC page in one of the links, but that was taken away immediately. I suggest you read point one to understand my intentions of my post to YapJY.

    fourthly, am i am member of bbafc?
    So what if yes, so what if no. What difference does this make? Does it make you special if you are one? Please clarify you intentions of this question.

    On the whole, please try to read the different posts by me on this thread. I'll apologize if my intentions are not clear to you in the beginning, but i hope this clears up.

  12. #57
    Platinum Member Adrianli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrianli View Post
    So why was this notice not posted on BBAFC website initially instead of posting it here??? The last I checked, 1min ago, the website news was last updated in march 2008.

    Please see attached screenshot.


    Danny, if you are part of the committee member, can you please answer my enquires directed at Mr Yap since he decided to disengage from tis discussion. Thks.

    Sorry, but I still do not agree to the comments written by the committee members/BBAFC members. However I will leave it as it is, tis is all abt how a person conducts himself(someone in authority) and putting his words across tactfully.

    Frankly, to promote aeromodelling hobby, do not be an internet hero. Go out n influence the young n old. Those who are here, have already jumped on the aeromodelling band wagon. Please refer to my example of my earlier posting before the Yapjy posting. Somehow I sound like a MOE spokesperson. I love the song "I like to teach the world to sing"


    And lastly still no one can give concrete/supporting reasons why the notice was not posted in BBAFC instead.


    No more further comments from me on tis topic, let the public judge for themselves. Not disengaging from any questions put forward to me.

  13. #58
    Gold Member genexis's Avatar
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    Of course the information is available to the server administrators. This is obvious. The issue here is not whether we have access to it, but whether we should access it and breach the confidentiality of the PM system.

    You stated that the forum admin should go request for such information from the server admin so as to verify the new users are referred to from bbafc? And what in the world is there a need to go to such extent, and who the hell cares about whether they are from bbafc? We are all just rc hobbists from Singapore, not categorized by what club you belong to! Hope you are aware and knowledge that. Your statement of using the access the PM system is has an indirect assumption that the forum admin has been doing this. As far as i know, this has not been done since the hosting was changed.

    You state that this information is for the server admin to know, and not publicize it. This is utter bull shit. Even if the server admin has access to such information, he is not allowed to access or read it at will. I hope you have not been practicing this in your "culture". This information is only available to the relevant authorities when the need arises. Other than that, no access. Simple as that.

    You stated that if i am a member, it should not be a concern to me? How many times do we need to remind you that this is a public forum. You say what you like, comment on what you like. But if you dare to do that, then yo better have the courage to back your words and face any form of criticism. Simple as that. Hope that you can understand this eventually.

    On subtle marketing, my point is not to tell yapjy that he is not allowed to subtle market. My point is... if he doesn't like people to use his property without paying, then do not do the same to others. You are missing the whole issue. Please... try to see the big picture here.

    If you have any more issues with this, please come down to bishan funfly tomorrow morning. There shouldn't be many flyers tomorrow, hence i should have some time to entertain you. Do come at around 11am.





    Quote Originally Posted by tucfaz View Post
    Hi. Hope you'll see this as a discussion..

    Your point is toward yapjy?? My point is towards the issue. BBAFC is an officially registered club. hence, it's very important to upkeep it's Integrity. If there are misconception, these have to be trashed. If there are misunderstanding, it's important that these be trash as well.

    back-end server maintainer are known to have access to all information passing through their server. hence, it's no secret. There are company that will state clearly to client that all message passing through the server can be viewed. It will be that the server maintainer have not exercise due diligent if these information are not available to them, as such information can be requested by authority for whatever reasons, and the administrator will be seen as un-corporative if they do not have these information, and worse. cause suspicion, and if you do have these information, then it's for you to know only and not publish such information publicly.. Sorry. Maybe different culture.

    The issue on hand. If you're a member. Then it should not be of much concern to you. If you're not.. A link to membership information will be useful. While, I do agree that there are things we don't know. Hence, should leave it to the mod to decide if the post is in any violation.

    Subtle marketing.. I suggest we not go into this, but for us to go understand what subtle marketing mean.

  14. #59
    Senior Member Murdanny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrianli View Post
    Sorry, but I still do not agree to the comments written by the committee members/BBAFC members. However I will leave it as it is, tis is all abt how a person conducts himself(someone in authority) and putting his words across tactfully.

    Frankly, to promote aeromodelling hobby, do not be an internet hero. Go out n influence the young n old. Those who are here, have already jumped on the aeromodelling band wagon. Please refer to my example of my earlier posting before the Yapjy posting. Somehow I sound like a MOE spokesperson. I love the song "I like to teach the world to sing"

    No more further comments from me on tis topic, let the public judge for themselves. Not disengaging from any questions put forward to me.

    And lastly still no one can give concrete/supporting reasons why the notice was not posted in BBAFC instead.

    No more further comments from me on tis topic, let the public judge for themselves. Not disengaging from any questions put forward to me.[/QUOTE]

    haha. i think no matter what the BBAFC committee member say, you will nv agree to it.

    oh and maybe, we will go ahead and put obvious rulings of the club.

    im gonna play golf at the Raffles Country Club tomorrow, anyone else coming?
    Kedi AH !

  15. #60
    Gold Member tucfaz's Avatar
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    Hi,

    Sorry for getting you so worked up. Seriously not the intention. OK. unless you're a professional system administrator. I guess there's no need to argue on how information are being used in a server. But if you insist.. We can do this over PM..

    As for the number of reminder. we may have miss out some of the other announcement. as there is only this one post. Maybe you would like to point to us the repeated reminder? and we're sure the club will take that into consideration, and take that as a lesson.

    Also, have there been cases where non-member have actually been chased out of the field, or physically stopped from flying?

    Going to Bishan.. Yes, I'll loved to, but I don't own any EP heli.

    Quote Originally Posted by genexis View Post
    Of course the information is available to the server administrators. This is obvious. The issue here is not whether we have access to it, but whether we should access it and breach the confidentiality of the PM system.

    You stated that the forum admin should go request for such information from the server admin so as to verify the new users are referred to from bbafc? And what in the world is there a need to go to such extent, and who the hell cares about whether they are from bbafc? We are all just rc hobbists from Singapore, not categorized by what club you belong to! Hope you are aware and knowledge that. Your statement of using the access the PM system is has an indirect assumption that the forum admin has been doing this. As far as i know, this has not been done since the hosting was changed.

    You state that this information is for the server admin to know, and not publicize it. This is utter bull shit. Even if the server admin has access to such information, he is not allowed to access or read it at will. I hope you have not been practicing this in your "culture". This information is only available to the relevant authorities when the need arises. Other than that, no access. Simple as that.

    You stated that if i am a member, it should not be a concern to me? How many times do we need to remind you that this is a public forum. You say what you like, comment on what you like. But if you dare to do that, then yo better have the courage to back your words and face any form of criticism. Simple as that. Hope that you can understand this eventually.

    On subtle marketing, my point is not to tell yapjy that he is not allowed to subtle market. My point is... if he doesn't like people to use his property without paying, then do not do the same to others. You are missing the whole issue. Please... try to see the big picture here.

    If you have any more issues with this, please come down to bishan funfly tomorrow morning. There shouldn't be many flyers tomorrow, hence i should have some time to entertain you. Do come at around 11am.

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