Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

KKboard2 review and Tricopter settings.

Collapse

Zenm Tech Pte Ltd

Collapse

Visit Zenmtech at rc.zenmtech.com

X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    KKboard2 review and Tricopter settings.

    For a more detailed review, check this one out!
    July 15th Update

    Found out why my Tricopter is behaving so strangely, apparently the silicon gel padding I placed below my tail motor made things worse, I have since removed it leveled it to the servo using hard wood strips. Also I found the best settings from rcgroups for the KK2board PID settings and here they are. Flies super stable right now!

    gyro aileron\elevator
    p gain 35
    p limit 100
    i gain 25
    i limit 20
    gyro rudder
    p gain 45
    p limit 100
    i gain 20
    i limit 20

    self lev
    p gain 65
    p limit 65
    i gain 0
    i limit 0


    The Settings below are Obsolete! Do NOT use them!!


    ************************************************** ********************************
    Important update! Just came back from a test flight and discovered a few things.

    The settings below are not good for forward flight!!! It is only good for hovering. The P settings have to be reduced further to the 60-80 range for a good forward flight, using the settings below will result in it rolling periodically during forward flight. Seems that I will have to do more tuning to get it to fly reasonably. Good thing is that the auto level works very well and will provide a very stable platform for aerial videos.

    2nd Update

    New Settings - This setting is the most promising so far

    Roll/Pitch
    P Gain - 45
    P Limit - 100
    I Gain - 60
    I Limit -20

    Yaw
    P Gain - 65
    P Limit - 20
    I Gain - 50
    I Limit -10

    3rd Update

    I have just returned from flying and the above settings are NOT good for flying in strong winds. The values are still too high

    This is the latest values I have, it is a little "Drifty" but at least it doesn't give you surprises and can handle very strong winds. Now it is just up to the skill of the pilot.

    Roll/Pitch (Aileron/Elevator)

    P Gain : 30
    P Limit : 100
    I Gain : 3
    I Limit : 20

    Yaw (Rudder)

    P Gain : 30
    P Limit : 20
    I Gain : 3
    I Limit : 10

    Stick Scaling
    Roll & Pitch : 50
    Yaw (Rudder) :70
    Throttle : 100

    Onboard Flight video. Testing the response in the first half and on 03:35 onward I go crazy with the controls.



    ************************************************** ********************************

    Before I start with the review I'll post the settings I have for my Tricopter. I have a clockwise prop (rev) for the left boom and counter clock wise props for both the right boom and tail boom.

    Lets go through the PI gain settings
    Click image for larger version

Name:	02_MainMenu.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	77.7 KB
ID:	983515
    I got these settings after much trial and error and going through 3 battery packs. Resulting hover characteristics is stable and feels more locked on than the older KKboard, though I must admit that the older KKboard is easier to setup.
    Click image for larger version

Name:	03_Roll.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	206.4 KB
ID:	983516Click image for larger version

Name:	04_Pitch.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	197.1 KB
ID:	983517Click image for larger version

Name:	05_Yaw.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	216.5 KB
ID:	983518

    Miscellaneaous, Auto Level and individual Channel Mixer Edit settings
    Click image for larger version

Name:	07_Miscellaneaous.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	207.7 KB
ID:	983519Click image for larger version

Name:	08_AutoLevel.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	210.6 KB
ID:	983520Click image for larger version

Name:	09_MixerEditorChannel1.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	215.9 KB
ID:	983521Click image for larger version

Name:	010_MixerEditorChannel02.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	227.8 KB
ID:	983522Click image for larger version

Name:	011_MixerChannelChannel03.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	224.6 KB
ID:	983523Click image for larger version

Name:	012_MixerEditor_Channel04.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	229.3 KB
ID:	983524

    Will continue in the next post as there's a image post limit.

    Last edited by weeliano; 15-07-2012, 08:23 PM. Reason: Update PID settings

    #2
    KKboard2 review and Tricopter settings part 2

    In my trial and error attempts to get the best settings, I made the mistake of mounting the kk2board too high on 20mm thick black foam strips cut from the kk2board foam box. This resulted in excessive vibration and causing random jumps in the throttle and making the Tricopter very dangerous and difficult to hover safely. I cut the thickness of the foam mount down to about 9 to 10mm and remounted the board and saw a huge difference in vertical movement of the hover. Apparently the Ivensense Gyros are very susceptible to stray vibrations and that caused the erratic throttling. The default PI gain settings for the KKboard2 is too high for the Tricopter and they have to be tuned down, you can use the settings that I have obtained from the 1st post, but the settings may not work for you due to different Tricopter motor, ESC, Prop size/balance, Prop direction and boom length etc.

    My Tricopter is built based on rcexplorer.se's dimensions with a few changes. Instead of wood I use carbon fiber 10mm square cross section booms from Jet Hobby. The tail yaw assembly is also slightly modified to be more secure. Instead of wooden booms, the carbon fiber booms are stiffer and thus will generate more vibrations. You may have better results with wooden booms.

    Click image for larger version

Name:	TricopterYaw_improved.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	182.6 KB
ID:	971323
    The clear gelatin like substance is silicone gel pads for ladie's shoes I got from Guardian pharmacy. Comes in a pack of 6. I use it to reduce the vibration of the motor. A hole is drilled at the end of the pole and a cable tie is used to secure the yaw mechanism. Previously, vibration caused the servo and yaw mechanism to disconnect midflight and causing me to crash, thankfully the tricopter came down flat on grass with no damage.
    Click image for larger version

Name:	TricopteYawMech.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	195.2 KB
ID:	971324

    Now is there a big difference between the KKBoard Classic and KKboard2? Once properly tuned, the KKboard2 feels more locked on and its auto level feature prevents you from tipping over your craft, the controls feels dampened once auto level is turned on. I have mapped the auto level switch to channel 5 on my 9x so that means you can flip the switch on mid flight. So far I haven't used the Height Dampening and Minimum Height settings and it doesn't seem to be featured in the manual. It could be a height holding feature but I'll have to test that out. There is no position hold feature which means that the craft will drift when there's wind blowing at it.

    Throttle calibration can be quite troublesome, you need to hold down the 1st and 4th button while plugging in the battery and flipping the switch with the buttons held down all the time. I got around this by using 2 large plastic clothes pegs to hold down the button. The manual have a step by step guide on how to calibrate the throttle.

    During my trial and error, my tricopter experienced a lot of sudden throttle ups resulting in skips and jumps. I have modified my landing gear to use Giant zip ties which I purchases from Sim Lim Tower, apparently they don't make it this wide anymore and I bought the last stock. The loops of plastic absorb the sudden landings very well and prevented my Tricopter from serious damage. I'm sure you an use other plastic strips and build the loop landing gear which works really great.

    Click image for larger version

Name:	TriCopterGiantCableTieLeg.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	214.4 KB
ID:	971325
    How I attach the large cable ties.
    Click image for larger version

Name:	TriCopterGiantCableTieLeg2.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	198.0 KB
ID:	971326


    So is the KKboard2 recommended? For the price and the kind of features it comes with, I definitely recommend it. I have yet to try it on my quads yet but I believe it will result in a more locked in flying experience. Although setting the KKboard2 is greatly helped with the back lit LCD screen, it can be daunting for a beginner who have no idea what the PI Gain settings mean. Also setting the individual channels in the custom Mixer Edit settings can be very cryptic even with the manual. Changing the direction of the propeller on the Mixer Edit channel does not actually change the physical propeller direction, I think it only tells the board that the propeller is spinning that way so that it will compensate for the torque generated. I will still recommend the older KKboard for beginners who want to start multi rotor flying. I feel it is still easier to set up and the piezo gyros though more fragile in crashes are more resistant to stray vibrations. That being said, I think the KKboard2 holds a lot of promise and when properly tuned can give more higher end boards a run for your money.

    After coming back from a number of field flying tests I can say that the KKboard2 is an excellent product, however for Tricopters, finding the sweet spot on the P I values can be a frustrating experience, at least for me. During the tuning process I can get the Tricopter to hover nicely but in straight forward flight it wobbles and during yaw pitch turns, the wobbling worsen and threaten to tip over and crash. After much trying all sorts of values and reading up online, I pushed the values down and finally got a safe and stable platform. In terms of setup convenience, the KKboard2 is probably the best compared to the KKboard classic. You don't need to use a USBasp AVR programming device to change the flying configuration (though you need one for future firmware updates). It would be great if the presets could come with better P I values. In terms of stability, there is a noticeable improvement in stability, especially when autolevel is turned on. This makes it a great controller for video.

    Last edited by weeliano; 02-07-2012, 07:15 AM. Reason: Post review update

    Comment


      #3
      I am so tempted to build another multi-rotor after seeing your build-thread. but i think i will go with a quad rather then a tri.
      After my last crash my servo got screwed and i had to replace it with a cheap servo bought from jethobby and it doesnt seem to be performing up to the standard. the quad wont have such problems. I guess i will also make the frame myself out of fibreglass and CF.
      Sir, i have one qn regarding this board. Do you need an avr programmer or can you like just load the firmware using the screen.
      In other words, does it need to be flashed using a USB programmer?
      "For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return." - Leonardo Da Vinci

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by wanna_be_pilot View Post
        I am so tempted to build another multi-rotor after seeing your build-thread. but i think i will go with a quad rather then a tri.
        After my last crash my servo got screwed and i had to replace it with a cheap servo bought from jethobby and it doesnt seem to be performing up to the standard. the quad wont have such problems. I guess i will also make the frame myself out of fibreglass and CF.
        Sir, i have one qn regarding this board. Do you need an avr programmer or can you like just load the firmware using the screen.
        In other words, does it need to be flashed using a USB programmer?
        Ha ha, no need to be so formal and calling me Sir. No you don't need an AVR programmer to configure the firmware. All the setups and different configurations you ever need is already built into the board. When Rolf (Kapteinkuk) designed the board, he wanted it to be simple enough for anyone to use. You can visit this official thread on the KK2 board to learn more.

        The board in itself is very easy to set up and use, however it is the tuning that will take some time and effort. The stock settings I found out after reading from the thread is too high and it makes the quad or a tri too difficult to fly. Kapteinkuk admitted when he's developing the board, he was using modified ESCs with custom firmware with higher frequency response. Stock ESCs like the Turnigy Plush series will work better with lower PI gain settings. Other than that, it should be very easy to setup.

        Better pre-order your board as they are moving very fast, right now HK is limiting to 1 purchase per customer.

        Comment


          #5
          Best PID settings for the KK2Board Tricopter setup

          I believe I finally got the best PID settings for the KK2board Tricopter configuration. These values are taken from "hallstudio" in the official rcgroups thread on the KK2board

          gyro aileron\elevator
          p gain 35
          p limit 100
          i gain 25
          i limit 20
          gyro rudder
          p gain 45
          p limit 100
          i gain 20
          i limit 20

          self lev
          p gain 65
          p limit 65
          i gain 0
          i limit 0


          Several conditions must be met though. The yawing motor must be secured very tight with no stray vibrations. Previously I used a silicone padding as a base and that ruined the turning stability. After I rebuilt the tail yawing mechanism, leveling the rotating vector and lining it straight with the servo, I got a very stable platform. Now I can finally say that the KK2board is superior to the classic KKboard.

          Flights today feels extremely locked in and my Tricopter now flies on rails. So far my GoPro Hero can take 720p video quite easily but when up to 1080, the slow CMOS refresh rate (30fps) still can't get rid of the jello effect. Its all about building a good camera vibration isolation system. As a Aerial GoPro video platform, this is by far the most affordable and stable solutions out there.

          Comment


            #6
            Thanks for these settings. I know nuts about rotor craft, I knocked a tricopter together over the weekend from a mishmash of spare parts, and your settings got me flying right off the bat. With the 1.5FW and self-level on it's like flying a coaxial helicopter. Now I just need to learn to fly without self level.

            Comment


              #7
              This thread is important! I have been searching for help in my tricopter setup and this is what I need to proceed. Thank you.

              Comment


                #8
                Hello Now I flying tricopter , i really want to fly with tricopter flyer. i stay in eunos .

                Comment


                  #9
                  Hey! Can we meet up and fly together? I need some help with mine. I using the batbone with V-tail configuration. Msg me at nine637nine602 for faster respond.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I was flying Matt hall's Tcopter. A great, simple design that just works. Easy to build too. Flies great with the settings from his build video. I've put it up for sale in the classifieds. Am flying another tri now. We guys should get together for a session

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Mind leaving your contacts?

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X