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    #31
    yeah, my bad..
    Take what you've got and fly with it - Jim Henson
    ... no plane will allow a pilot to recover from stupid. You still have to do those piloty things... - Joe Wurts
    Electric things run on smoke. Let the smoke out and they won't work.


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      #32
      Aiyah

      Like that I cannot fly it anywhere else...can I just remove the prop and leave everything else on. This way, if i want to fly it at punggul, i just need to put the prop back on and I am on my way to thermal country. Or I can just tie a rubberband over the props...hmm that would really make things easy won't it. Well what do you say guys? Can i just do that? Can I? Can I?
      Go back in one piece to fly another day.
      Having fun yet?
      36.39mhz
      40.77mhz

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        #33
        Actually, you can just remove the prop and fly. This is a safety measure.

        But for your own benefit and minimise losses in event of a lost or broken model, I'll reccomend that the expensive parts to be left at home. There are many models broken during bad flyings and landings and secondary damage to the expensive parts can be very heart breaking, which is totally unnecessary. From the past records, there are countless models landed into the trees and it can take a few days to recover. You'll surely hope that the expensive parts are not installed in such cases.

        As for your Easyglider, you can fabricate a foam nose or just put a spinner on with contact cement or tapes for the sake of slope soaring. In time you want to fly it with power somewhere else, you can always remove them by discarding the tapes or cut the joint apart with a penknife and re-fit the motors.
        Last edited by joe yap; 11-12-2006, 08:00 AM.

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          #34
          R we allowed to fly now (from noon till evening) or still wait for the green light from the Npark Authority?

          Any chance to have the motor ON only when the plane is far away from the slope (I ask this because we only need to ON the motor for ~1 minute to bring up the plane, then fly without motor for ~1 hr until it land)? Without the motor at all, the actual good flying session almost reduce from 3 to 1 month . However, if this is a NO,NO,NO, I will follow the rule to disconnect the motor and tape the prop and fly later when the wind is really strong.

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            #35
            Originally posted by Leo
            R we allowed to fly now (from noon till evening) or still wait for the green light from the Npark Authority?

            Any chance to have the motor ON only when the plane is far away from the slope (I ask this because we only need to ON the motor for ~1 minute to bring up the plane, then fly without motor for ~1 hr until it land)? Without the motor at all, the actual good flying session almost reduce from 3 to 1 month . However, if this is a NO,NO,NO, I will follow the rule to disconnect the motor and tape the prop and fly later when the wind is really strong.
            We are given only verbal go ahead, which also means that they will not stop us from flying. However, no black or white has been written to officiate the site for flying yet. At the meantime, go ahead and fly if you wish.

            As for your second question, the answer is still no. The reason is simple enough. In case of runaway plane, there won't be any prop to hurt the public. By the way, you don't really need it to fly throughout the entire season. Just bring different kinds of gliders for different conditions. Please try not to go to any 'grey areas', like flying a plane with prop, whether the motor is on or not, as it'll compromise the trust the Nparks has given to us. The park ranger don't know how to differentiate. Remove all props if you want to fly there.

            At the beginning and end of the season, when the winds are weak, get a HLG or super light glider. My Multiplex Easy glider ( glider version) has been proven to fly at the slightest breeze on the slope. In the peak season, almost any glider will work. If there's no wind, you can always make a way to other sites for flying a powered glider. If you are patient enough, I'll be building some ultralight Mosquito class gliders that will fly in the slightest breeze on the slope.

            I hope I've addressed to your concerned. Please be patient and try to understand the situation. If you have any further concerns or query, feel free to drop me a question at any point of time. I can provide you with some alternatives or advise as far as my knowledge capacity.
            Last edited by joe yap; 11-12-2006, 12:39 PM.

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              #36
              May I suggest any query that anybody may have with regard to flying on the slope to post your questions directly to the members themself rather than on DH forum. Some of the issues may be sensitive and last thing we want is to have an official with NPB reading some of your concerns.

              I hope you understand we want to be able to fly at BR slope for many more years to come. As at now the understand / agreement we have with NPB is no motor assisted gliders / sailplanes or planes or even helicopter on BR slope.

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                #37
                Thks Joe,
                Point noted. I will remove the prop and fly later.

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                  #38
                  hi Joe, hi all, is there a possibility for the power source to be mounted at the shoulder of the wing, under the wings or at the rear portion of the fuselage(infront of the rudder), not necessary as a pusher. as the imminent danger of the prop will not be present. the first impact when the glider approach likely, if not always, will be its nose. really hope can have some form of propulsion, but yet not jeopardise safety.

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                    #39
                    i think joe has already made it very clear in his 2nd para. The general non-rc public do not know how to differentiate. You really dont need any form of aided propulsion to fly during the season. Fly with the wind thats the fun part. if u do means u got the wrong type of plane for the place. Hope u understand the issue here, its the only slope we have. enough said.
                    what's next?

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                      #40
                      Hi,

                      Thought Id ask...dont you think having power would get you out of sticky situtations instead of being powerless? When all is fine you dont need power...but what if?? What if a situation called for power for you to manuever out of hitting someone or something...would not having power be the right thing to have?? What if the wind was strong enuf to blow your plane off course...would not having power allow you bring it back under control into the right flight zone?
                      Do you feel the RUSH....!!!!

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                        #41
                        Originally posted by joe yap
                        As for your second question, the answer is still no. The reason is simple enough. In case of runaway plane, there won't be any prop to hurt the public.
                        Hi Joe,

                        I have a predator UAV glider. Is it ok if i remove the rear pusher and mount a small edf50 on the rear? Just need abit of push to get the bird up in the air at the initial stage.

                        Rgds
                        Tak
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                          #42
                          Originally posted by Hawkeye
                          Hi,

                          Thought Id ask...dont you think having power would get you out of sticky situtations instead of being powerless? When all is fine you dont need power...but what if?? What if a situation called for power for you to manuever out of hitting someone or something...would not having power be the right thing to have?? What if the wind was strong enuf to blow your plane off course...would not having power allow you bring it back under control into the right flight zone?
                          Thank you for asking. You have a point. However slope soaring is very different from flat-field powered soaring. If you have been flying slope gliders, you'll understand that.

                          Well, the worst case situation that the authority is concerned is the safety of the public, and not your plane. They are not too concern about how well your plane flies or how reliable your radio is. In case of bodily impact with a person, it won't be too difficult to understand that a powered model will inflict more injury than a powerless one.

                          As mentioned before, slope soaring is almost totally different from flat field powered flight. The stronger the wind, the better it is to fly , in most cases. It is also the reason why it is possible in the first place. In case of a super strong wind that you think will blow your plane out-of course, no power system will do any help either. In most cases, the only time the throttle needs to be pushed forward is to climb for altitude, in days of weak or no lift, from what I have understand in the decade of slope soaring.

                          In sticky situations like what you mentioned before, there can be mainly 3 failures. Assuming that the glider is unpowered, the first possible failure is the lost of natural lift, in that case, the flyer can still make a very controlled and docile landing approach to the landing site. The 2nd possiblilities is the failure of radio guidance system. In such cases, power system will have no help at all, and infact will make it worst if the motor is left running. The 3rd possiblities is that someone inadvertantly flew a plane off course. You may think that with power, you may be able bring the model back to the field. That is assuming you are able to do so, but you can't assume that you can definitely do it. In most cases, when flying on a slope with such narrow frontage, these situations happens very fast, and most unwary flyers will have ther planes safely blown into the tall trees behind the ridgeline and a matter of seconds. I don't think you'll have the time to power up your glider to speed to save it.

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                            #43
                            Originally posted by Raven
                            Hi Joe,

                            I have a predator UAV glider. Is it ok if i remove the rear pusher and mount a small edf50 on the rear? Just need abit of push to get the bird up in the air at the initial stage.

                            Rgds
                            Tak
                            Thank you Tak, for asking. I'm afriad it is still no-go. We are 'experts' in our field, but the authority do not see it that way. The case of spinning prop is very clear to all of us, but these 'gray areas' is still very contraversal. The authority may not be so techinically inclined to differentiate between each type of powered models. If the 'gray areas' becomes too large for them to handle, it can be very much easier for them to put a signboard saying , "No aero model flying allowed in the park". And mind you that it is not me, but the park ranger who goes around and check your models there.

                            Take my word. If it is allowed, Bishan park would have been opened for electric plane flying since years back.

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                              #44
                              Dear all,
                              I was present at the discussion and feel that what Joe is preeching is for the good of all slope flyers. Slope gliders are designed to be flown as such while "flat feild" planes are designed differently.
                              We welcome all who would like to try their hand at slope but please be conscious of the the general public. We have given them our word that our aircraft will not have any form of propulsion. Mounting a motor with a propeller weather it be a tractor fan or a pusher or a ducted system goes against that promise and will jepordise the flying site as well as our credibility.
                              First time slope flyers please seek the advice of the more experienced flyers before you take to the slope as the flying technique is different. You will gain more experience knowing exactly what to do and will have more fun at the slope.
                              Thanks
                              Planes: Cap21, Northrop F5E, MK Kingbird, MK Curare, Elster, Jazz60, SouthernX, Zoom 4D

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                                #45
                                Originally posted by Blackite207
                                We have given them our word that our aircraft will not have any form of propulsion. Mounting a motor with a propeller weather it be a tractor fan or a pusher or a ducted system goes against that promise and will jepordise the flying site as well as our credibility.
                                Ok get the idea... no motors. Thanks Joe and Blackite207 for the explanation. Guess the word is no motor or engine allow.

                                Cheers
                                Tak
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