Please refrain from flying gas models at MS

[joe yap]

Hello guys. I'm not a heli flyer but I've some advise and story to share and to pass on the awareness.

As some of you who has been to Marina South will find that the group flying there are quite unfriendly towards flying nitro there. I'm happened to be one of them, and in fact the one who has been politely advising people since 5-6 years ago when I first started flying there.

I was being introduced to fly electric planes there by some veteran flyers in the late 90s and we all stopped flying there after a year or 2, when police had banned us from flying there as there were public complaining about some gas flyers with whatever reasons not disclosed to us. Probably the noise from the gas engines had attracted too many attention at that time.

A few years back, we started flying electric planes there again hoping the authorities will not intervene this time as we would strongly advise people who has or has the intention to fly gas planes there. It has been a few years we have been doing so without any complaints and the group started to grow larger.

However, more and more gas flyer also started turning up there recently. As usual, we'd advise them against flying gas models there. Some of them heed the advise and even started flying electric planes there. However, there are a handful who still insist on flying there even though they has been advised. Like what I been telling people, I can only advise them off but not stop them since I don't own the place and I don't have the rights to do so. Deep in my heart, I'm telling myself the end of Marina South flying field is near.

True enough, there were police coming over Yesterday at Marina South who came to advise flyers there. They didn't stop the flyers from flying as there were only a group of electric flyers there and they were busy explaining to them that they are only electric foam planes and IFOs. Before the police left, they warned them against fast planes, restrict the flying to no more than 200 feet altitude and to obtain a license for the radio set. The story didn't end there.

After the police had left, some gas heli flyers turned up at the field and was being told what has just happened. Unfortunately, he continued to fly his gas heli even after that. What he has done is that he had dashed all the hope of those who has been explaining so hard to the police in order to keep the flying site. For him, it'll be easy to go find a new site if the place happened to be banned from flying totally, but for electric plane flyers, who has searched for a grass field ideal for the types of the model for flying, and has been flying there for years, it'll be a great loss.

In a nutshell, please try not to fly anymore gas models there and pass on the message to anyone intented to or has been doing so. In short, DON'T HIT AND RUN especially for those who has been field-hopping.

[HZM]

Well I do not want to see a war start between e flier over at rcflying and members of DH. I believe we are old enough to look at diff angle on this matter raised.


Being mentioned by Joe on the other side of the thread ..... and in case u guys did not happen to see it

It's the location and the authorities which is also nitro unfriendly

So tackle to the point and not to individual or group

In the view of authority, gas rc machine is always more deadly comapre to electric, unless u change their perception ... no doubt we all know electric can be as deadly too.

Mike

[Super-Hornet]

Yeah... Agree.. I think those biggier and larger aircraft should lay low at the moment till the matter cool down.

(I'm on neutral side. I love all sort of aircraft regardless of Nitro, Diesel or Electric)

Bottom line is don't spoil the market.

Super-Hornet

[Tele]

Dear Joe ...I am very disapointed that you have such an opinion. I fly nitro as well as electric and I can say that there is no better/safer place in sigapore than at MS to fly.
I am disapointed on you behalf that you would so quickly turn the gun so easily towards the nitro fliers and not try to explain to the police that both are reasonbly safe.
I supose that you were just looking after your own interests and not that of the sport in total. ( very selfish I think!)
Nitro are more controalable and will in more often then not use a PCM system whcih I am almost sure that you dont use on your crafts. Therfore if you loses contro of your bird... it will keep flying and crash out of your control. Helis ...once that have gone out of range of the TX or if there is a TX- rx problem then it kills the throttle..... I hope that i dont have to draw a picture of what happens to a heli with no power.

as I have said I am very disapointed that you quickly pionted the finger at the nitro fliers ( also being further away from the ECP!!) how about some understanding of the sport.

This is a sad day for this sport.
doug

[joe yap]

Originally posted by Tele
Dear Joe ...I am very disapointed that you have such an opinion. I fly nitro as well as electric and I can say that there is no better/safer place in sigapore than at MS to fly.
I am disapointed on you behalf that you would so quickly turn the gun so easily towards the nitro fliers and not try to explain to the police that both are reasonbly safe.
I supose that you were just looking after your own interests and not that of the sport in total. ( very selfish I think!)
Nitro are more controalable and will in more often then not use a PCM system whcih I am almost sure that you dont use on your crafts. Therfore if you loses contro of your bird... it will keep flying and crash out of your control. Helis ...once that have gone out of range of the TX or if there is a TX- rx problem then it kills the throttle..... I hope that i dont have to draw a picture of what happens to a heli with no power.

as I have said I am very disapointed that you quickly pionted the finger at the nitro fliers ( also being further away from the ECP!!) how about some understanding of the sport.

This is a sad day for this sport.
doug

Dear Doug,

Nope, you got me wrong totally. I'm just like you, a gas flyer as well. If you are not convinced, go ask around the flyers for what kind of planes I fly. In fact, I fly more gas planes than I ever do on electrics and I'm still flying them. There are a lot more plave to fly gas planes and most of them are powerful enough to be equipped with landing gears to ROG on most dirt field. Most electrics do not have and relies on the sot grass field to cushion the impact on landing.

Is true both electric and gas can be as dangerous and we all knew that, but the public does not think so. The main issue is not so on the power of the powerplants, it is the noise that attract unnecessary attention. I told you before the first police intervention is created when someone flew gas models there some years ago. While things has happened before, why try to risk losing the field by doing the same thing again? You can blame the public , the authorities or the police, or even me! But what can you do to convince them that gas flying is as safe to fly there? All we can do is to compromise and fly something more suitable to minimise complaints. As I have been emphasizing, the land is being owned. And if the relevant authorities and owner of the land are not happy, they can ban the place for flying once and for all.

This is not a war between as or electric flyer by the way. It is the issue of trying to keep the site flyable as long as we can. You can go tell the police all your heli stories but if they don't buy it, what can you do? I don't think I'm the one jumping the gun, but history has already repeat itself, why do you guys still want to push it? If you fly gas, just like me, go elsewhere like Punggol where no residential estate or buildings are within range of hearing the engine buzz.

People has be trying very hard to keep MS flyable, and all we need is everyone to understand the situation and co-operate.

I hope this answer your question, Doug. And don't point the finger at me so soon. I'm not looking at my own interest, I'm just doing my part to keep the flying sites I've been going, flyable as long as I can, and MS is just one of them. I think you should as well. If you fly electric , you are most welcome at MS. If you want to fly gas, you are abosulutely welcome at Punggol, and I'm personally inviting to join us there. At least, I'm giving you an alternative than just driving you guys away.

[joe yap]

To drive in my point, different flying sites has thier own limitations like terrain, surroundings, authorities, public etc, and has a better suitablity to a certain types of models. It's just happened that Marina South is in the central of the busines district and attention can be quite high.
The western end is further away from ECP,BUT nearer to the boats,don't forget. The eastern is nearer to ECP but further away from the boats. To the North are bushes and trees and South is a construction site. Verdict? We are flying in a very constraint land and airspace. These make it a place only suitable to fly small and slow flying electric planes.
While police and authorities has the perception of gas models being unsuitable there, there is very little point debating about it unless any of us would personally stand-out and convince them. As for those who has talked and explained to them, they should deserve the credit and not to be penalised for not trying to promote gas flying there. In not so kind words, if you think you are so right, why don't you go and talk to the authorities yourself and stop abusing the place where people has fought for?
Same thing happened at Tampines as it was being banned from flying because of a handful of black sheeps crashed thier models into public properties and government installations. Persistant modellers had appealled very hard and eventually managed to get the local CC to support them and got themselves a 'LEGAL' flying site just across the old one. I applaud to these guys as they deserve the place they fought so hard for it. This kind of spirit should be applied to MS ideally. Even you do not want to fight for the right to fly there, at least don't spoil the market.

[Tele]

Dear Joe ..my appoligies for the quick finger pointing ..I admit I did jump to some conclusions.
The fact still remains though that we are permitted by law to fly our crafts ( all crafts) within the right freq and height limitations. the main sticking fact is that it is goverment land ( Crown land by correct definition if I am not wrong) as is the roads, parks , footpaths. and therefore the police has the right to ask us to cease the use of this area. ( as per any other crown land area)
The fact should be if RC flying ( of any nature) should be allowed as stated in these areas.

so if we are not allowed to fly in these areas then that goes for both electric and nitro then we shouldnt.And not ..."lets keep quiet and hope that nobody comes and disturbs us" attitude as we would still be breaking the law flying electric or nitro.

just my two cents worth.....
cheers Doug

[nic]

Safety Aspects

Some safety aspects which my flying pals started.. and I have been adhering closely:

1) Do a safety check BEFORE you fly:
- check electonics, screw, bolts, etc
2) Radio frequency checks with everyone who arrive at the field before you, as long as they are within your transmitter range.
3) Never fly when there are non-RC spectators near by. If there are kids running over to watch, LAND your aircraft IMMEDIATELY.
4) Keep a distance from the main roads, expressways, etc. Never fly over head of roads, people etc. Don't fly near anyone's property unless it is your own.

[Tele]

true ..very true !

[joe yap]

Originally posted by Tele
Dear Joe ..my appoligies for the quick finger pointing ..I admit I did jump to some conclusions.
The fact still remains though that we are permitted by law to fly our crafts ( all crafts) within the right freq and height limitations. the main sticking fact is that it is goverment land ( Crown land by correct definition if I am not wrong) as is the roads, parks , footpaths. and therefore the police has the right to ask us to cease the use of this area. ( as per any other crown land area)
The fact should be if RC flying ( of any nature) should be allowed as stated in these areas.

so if we are not allowed to fly in these areas then that goes for both electric and nitro then we shouldnt.And not ..."lets keep quiet and hope that nobody comes and disturbs us" attitude as we would still be breaking the law flying electric or nitro.

just my two cents worth.....
cheers Doug

I agree. We can still fly at Marina South if we just stick to what the police has mentioned. Anyway, in the context of ANO ( Air Navigation Order), we are 5km away from any aerodrome and means that the airspace is clear to fly as along as we keep the altitude within limits. It's the usage of the land space that is the main issue. We are given the concession to fly there as long as noboby cause any further unnecessary attention. In this sense, we are not just keeping quiet and wait till things happened. Even for kite flying, the same rules apply based on ANO, but like most Singaporean, most will fly near any aerodrome and as long as no police comes to you, there's no dispute. These rules are more like guide lines and as long as you do your part sensibly, you'll not invite trouble.
Take an example of parkflyers and kite flyers at SengKang, it's within 5km of the closest aerodrome. Police has yet to stop people from doing so and why? There's so far no complaints from the authorities since everyone flies thier own model or kite at low altitude which is baerly higher than the HDB block itself. Furthermore, people only do that on weekends and the airbase doesn't operate in weekends. Of course that doen't mean you should fly near to any buildings in the area. But if you fly somewhere far enough from any buildings quietly and not endangering any public, who will be so free to complain to police?

Doesn't it make sense now? Now the debate is on why gas planes are not so popular in crowded places. If you fly gas planes in Singapore long enough, you'll realised that gas flyers usually like to overpower thier planes and some much so that people started to put on things like tune pipes and other gadgets to make thier 2 strokers scream and thier planes streaks. Too many cases of gas model planes that crashed into buildings like in Bishan and Tampines has raised quite a big issue for the past few years. Some even came out in the newspaper. The government are now more aware of these problems than what they did last time. So in the end, they see nitro planes as more dangerous than any other models in perspective. Just ask yourself how many gas plane flyer would be happy just let their planes slowly sputter around in the sky. Go to any gas plane sites and you will almost immediately see people zipping their planes around , covering vast airspace. All these and the screaming engine will never be welcome in the vacinity of any build-up areas. By the way, way before anyone will notice a model flying in the sky, the ears of the general public will instantly pick up the irritating buzz of the screaming engines. Even with the speed of a 40 size trainer will quickly raise the concern from general public regarding safety.
Having saying these, electric motors are also getting increasing powerful and the safety issue will also comes in. That alone is a good reason to stop flying fast powerful electric at places like Marina South. The consolation is that the general public and the authorities have not come to a point to think that electric planes are as dangerous. But that doesn't mean we should just take it for granted and let it happen to us.
Last but not least, my advise is exercise some sense and caution with whatever and wherever you fly. Look around and survey the land and the surroundings before you decide upon the suitablity of models to fly there. If someone else has told you something, keep it in mind and do not take it for granted.

[joe yap]

For more informations, you can go to www.rcflying.cjb.net for further debate. It was also mentioned that the police were asking specifically for gas plane flyers.

[Art]

you guys can go on and on about this...I've came back from an afternoon of fun...and I still see this going on...

Let's all stop....

I think we are all old and mature enough to know the danger of RC flying...be it nitro or EP...and we all know where and what's best for us...

Get on with life...I'll still fly in MS...I think it's perfectly safe and away from anyone else....so long as people flying there checks frequencies....

I'll still fly in BP...or punggol..or seng Kang if there are Kakis there...like wise....we all need to observe the rules...whether official or not....

As to wanting us to stop flying in MS...I guess...if it's govt land and we're all trespassing...let's all leave the site...that'll be fair for me...no?

[Art]

Another point to note...I think if it comes to educating the authorities and public..they should be told that all models are dangerous...I think that includes EP and nitro...be it slow or park fliers...or even a seemingly harmless Feda...

Erm...having surveyed and recced some sites I find that MS is actually quite good for flying helis...away from everyone at the corner we fly....and the public will only be able to hear us from collyer quay...if they hear us...

[Tele]

[joe yap]

Originally posted by Arthur Lee
Another point to note...I think if it comes to educating the authorities and public..they should be told that all models are dangerous...I think that includes EP and nitro...be it slow or park fliers...or even a seemingly harmless Feda...

Erm...having surveyed and recced some sites I find that MS is actually quite good for flying helis...away from everyone at the corner we fly....and the public will only be able to hear us from collyer quay...if they hear us...

True to an extend,but who is willing to stand up against them to drive the point? We didn't say that the police are after helis or fixed wings, and that's not the issue in the first place. MS is good for helis and you can still fly there without much problem, provided it's electric powered. I've said before the police are after the gas machines, so fly gas at your own risk and the expense of e-flyers site.

Arthur, if you still insist flying your slimer there, I can't stop you anyway. But please spare the thought for the rest who has gone through so much to keep the place flyable and don't jeopardise the place for them. If need to,please go and find your own personal site. Don't burn down the tree if you can't reach for the apples.