View Full Version : P51 Prop size
Hey Loyn, (And everyone else)
I am going to get some spare props for the P51... in your opinion, which one will be better for the combination of 2S2P + stock 350C-BS? (I don't need speed.... :L )
8060
9047
9050
9070 (this one seem to draw too much current)
Thanks in advance.
OK base on you gearbox model it is of "B" type whish is of lower ration as compare to what we are using "C" That is why the current draw is high when using the 9070. Too large in size and too high of the prop pitch, but it will give you alot of power for sure. Hence you should drop down to 8060 or 9050. which alow to reduce the overall load on the motor and increase the air speed (increase in motor rpm at low load condition)
Anyway it is always a trial and error in order to get the right flying characteristic of the plane for yourself. Hope this helps. :D
nic get the full range of Prop from 8060 to 9050 (<$10) and try out until you are happy :D ...... I do that and now I have a lot of spare prop for what ever future project :S
haha...
I got quite a few too
many 1080
many 1043
9047
9070
8060
50xx (something.. I can't remember)
I need a new motor casing for my Estarter... so thought I would get a few spare props => trying to make up the $20 to qualify for the free shipping...
Err.... Gurus.... P51 too fast for me leow...strong wind.. iron tooth went ahead to maiden today.. So I also maiden the crash.... :L
Fly 2 minute only...
one up in the air,
dunno who control the plane...
Every thing so sensitive...
loops is easy...
roll also easy...
Strong wind also no prob....
zoom here zoom there....
until dunno go where...
so last resort down it... :rolleyes:
Lucky I pick a safe place today and no one around....
Anyway... here's the question..
I got 350+B gears+9050.
If I put 350+D gears + 1047, will it slow the plane down..?
Wings need airspeed to produce lift, you can fly slow but the plane will be at the edge of stalling and control responses are going to be very poor.
The above does not apply to 3D planes though
Super-Hornet
14-09-2004, 01:23 AM
Hi nic
Same things happen to my E-Starter when I first fly it myself.
Super-Hornet
Originally posted by Super-Hornet
Hi nic
Same things happen to my E-Starter when I first fly it myself.
Super-Hornet
Ahh.. I missed my E-starter... so easy to trim, so forgiving to fly......
If I got the $, maybe I will get another one instead... :rolleyes:
Originally posted by ammo
Wings need airspeed to produce lift, you can fly slow but the plane will be at the edge of stalling and control responses are going to be very poor.
The above does not apply to 3D planes though
sound like my good old ES... :D
nic I though your estarter is still in service ? even it is already in 6 pics :D Well have never try the estarter before but sure look like a good high wing trainer.
I know the P-51 is fast as compare to the estarter, especially with the B gearbox (4.43:1 ratio) wrt the C gearbox (5.33:1 ratio). However, the P-51 need all the speed to keep it in the air and provide the type of control you need. As plane is diff from heli, no forward speed no control. Slower the forward speed larger the control surface or throw is needed to provide the necessary control. That is why all those slow flyer usually come with very big control surface with yet less sensitive control. So if you found too sensitive, reduce the throw on your Tx rather than reduce the speed. An other way is to use a C gearbox with the same prop of 9050 (that is what I have been using, great) D gearbox (6.6:1 ratio) may be too slow for the P-51 even with a 10" prop. As this arrangement only give you good static thrust but once the plane start to fly forward the advantage will be lost. This limit the max forward speed of the plane which is bad for P-51. (it is not design to hang on its prop like 3D plane) You can try the 9047 too as it has a smaller prop pitch.
S.hornet if you find the estarter difficult to fly, it shows you have to fly something even of lower grade to start off like the cub or pico stick. Dont try to be a hero as you P-51 already tell you the story
:L
dabiddo
14-09-2004, 09:12 AM
FOllowing this thread... need help on the gearing too
I am going bl on my GWS Corsair... HImaxx 2025-4200 on a D gear (66T) on 3S lipo.
Which prop to use? The himaxx motor manual recommends 10x8 size prop to get 10.5A for above combination. Any suggestions?
THanks.
Originally posted by loyn
nic I though your estarter is still in service ? even it is already in 6 pics :D Well have never try the estarter before but sure look like a good high wing trainer.
The last flight I found that there is isn't enough trust to keep the plane going since the motor mount area is too badly damaged; resulting in a motor with an random varying angle of a few degrees....
I iron tooth... went to fly.. tough to fly without much lift and speed, but still can manage a few loops... then I try a roll.. and it roll until the ground.... :L (lost orientation).. think I go practise more at Reflex... For the record... at least 10 pieces.
I know the P-51 is fast as compare to the estarter, especially with the B gearbox (4.43:1 ratio) wrt the C gearbox (5.33:1 ratio). However, the P-51 need all the speed to keep it in the air and provide the type of control you need. As plane is diff from heli, no forward speed no control. Slower the forward speed larger the control surface or throw is needed to provide the necessary control. That is why all those slow flyer usually come with very big control surface with yet less sensitive control. So if you found too sensitive, reduce the throw on your Tx rather than reduce the speed. An other way is to use a C gearbox with the same prop of 9050 (that is what I have been using, great) D gearbox (6.6:1 ratio) may be too slow for the P-51 even with a 10" prop. As this arrangement only give you good static thrust but once the plane start to fly forward the advantage will be lost. This limit the max forward speed of the plane which is bad for P-51. (it is not design to hang on its prop like 3D plane) You can try the 9047 too as it has a smaller prop pitch.
[Quote]
Oh.. I don't have a C gearbox... only A, B and D.
I will play around with the Tx today and reduce the range... see how.
[Quote]
S.hornet if you find the estarter difficult to fly, it shows you have to fly something even of lower grade to start off like the cub or pico stick. Dont try to be a hero as you P-51 already tell you the story
:L [/B]
Hmm.. maybe I should go back to ES and put a 350+C to get use to faster speed.....
A good first step into flying will be the slow stick if u can't handle the e-starter yet. another option will be to build a bird-dog from rcgroups profile plans.
increasing speed on the e-starter will not be a good idea as there is a certain speed range the plane is designed to fly in. go above that range and u'll have structural problems and flying characteristics are going to be unstable/unsuitable, might end up fighting the plane rather than flying the plane.
A fast plane set up within it's operating speeds will be easier to handle than a slow plane set up to exceed it's operating limits. the latter will NOT give u the proper feel of fast flights.
Nic, I am so sorry abt yr P51 ....didnt notice yr thread :D
Btw, when you mentioned yr power system is 350C, could you confirm the black spur gear on the motor drive. In most case, they comes w "B" gearing. Else count the number of teeth of the gear on the motor, should be a 14T
If you going 2S2P, u can safely use a 1080 prop, it produce more lift in my opinion. Frank maiden mine w 1080 and we maiden John's spitfire w this prop, its more forgiving and slower in speed.
The mustang and rest of the warbird should fly nicely w 9070 ..... 1080 is a luxury and just make it more easy to recover in case u goes into "stall mode" not to mention it draw more current.
Hope thing went well
Mike
Super-Hornet
14-09-2004, 09:24 AM
Hi loyn
I think for me... it is not the wrong choice of plane to start... I think I used to my Helicopter controlling movement. When I tried to fly my E-Starter, I think I overpowering it and also the stick movement is very sensitive (Maybe I didn't use any Dual/Expo rate)
Overall, I manage to take off from runaway, turn right, flight straight then loose control from overreacting stick/movement that at the end, I just drop the plane for safety purpose.
BTW... I haven't abandon my P-51D... Just that it do not have Servos to fly.
Super-Hornet
Originally posted by ammo
A good first step into flying will be the slow stick if u can't handle the e-starter yet. another option will be to build a bird-dog from rcgroups profile plans.
increasing speed on the e-starter will not be a good idea as there is a certain speed range the plane is designed to fly in. go above that range and u'll have structural problems and flying characteristics are going to be unstable/unsuitable, might end up fighting the plane rather than flying the plane.
A fast plane set up within it's operating speeds will be easier to handle than a slow plane set up to exceed it's operating limits. the latter will NOT give u the proper feel of fast flights.
Understood. My ES was flying with a 400+D motor... heavy and slow. I got a 400+D because I was using 600mAh 8.4V NiCads.... very heavy eh?
With enough flight experience, u will find that u don't really need expos and dual rates
For the E-starter, use the 300(no need for 350) motor. it is not so amps-hungry like the 350 and yet produces more than sufficient power for full out flights. Plus u'll get the additional flight times that u need for training
Originally posted by HZM
Nic, I am so sorry abt yr P51 ....didnt notice yr thread :D
Btw, when you mentioned yr power system is 350C, could you confirm the black spur gear on the motor drive. In most case, they comes w "B" gearing. Else count the number of teeth of the gear on the motor, should be a 14T
If you going 2S2P, u can safely use a 1080 prop, it produce more lift in my opinion. Frank maiden mine w 1080 and we maiden John's spitfire w this prop, its more forgiving and slower in speed.
The mustang and rest of the warbird should fly nicely w 9070 ..... 1080 is a luxury and just make it more easy to recover in case u goes into "stall mode" not to mention it draw more current.
Hope thing went well
Mike
Nay no prob at all... it is a strong plane... but it just broke at my mod area.. which was the weakest area. Also bent the motor's shaft, no broken props. :D No worries... epoxy + masking tape patch it up and strengthen it.... (masking tape works superbly on my ES.... when I use only epoxy.. the plane breaks at the same part... those area I secure only masking tape without epoxy never broke again. :L )
Yes I am sure I have a B gears... it is printed on the black gears itself... "A", "B" and "D".. that's the 3 I have.
IMO, keeping "B" gearing and going w 1080 prop is fine. Like that kind of lift. After fimilarise w the characteristic of the plane, I switch to 9070 for more speed but less forgiving in recovery.
Btw, I am moving to "C" gearing w my hacker rated 3450kv on 3S1P. Tried last week on "B" gearing and prop vibrate on 2/3 - 3/4 throttle.
Cheers
Mike
I think the first step now is to pick a calm day and then try with the stock setup.... maybe I will panic less... :L
Mike ah, ur hacker Kv is on the high side ah, think u better use D gearing to keep the amp draw reasonable. also change to GWS HyperDrive props or APC electric props.
if want to fly slow, choose a prop with lower pitch, that way you get more vertical with the added thrust power. top speed will be slightly lower as the airfoil on the spit isn't meant for high speed anyway. with the airfoil, asking for a little more speed will need a very high power increase which makes it an inefficient setup. why not set it up for thrust and use the extra flight times?
Mike is always wanted for more speed :D that is why he ended up with 3S BL super high Kv motor. Last week when he test fly his spitfire, vibration from the prop at high speed is really scary :S just like going to break in the mid air. The prop is rotating at rpm beyond what it has been design for. BTW those prop used in the GWS warbird is slow flyer prop not for high rpm.
A lot of trial an error have to be done to get the right match. So base on the last flight done by Mike, looks like a high gear ratio C or D with a large low pitch prop (1040) should be good. This will reduce the strain on both the motor and prop. Translate to long flight time and lower air speed. Strongly recommending the use of APS electic over GWS slow flyer prop. They are stronger in everyway.
nic well don't 10 pcs for your estarter...... may be by the time it is finally grounded for good...... it can be used as packing material for model shippment :L ...... thousand of pcs.
Originally posted by loyn
nic well don't 10 pcs for your estarter...... may be by the time it is finally grounded for good...... it can be used as packing material for model shippment :L ...... thousand of pcs.
Only lots of good memories left... :)
it is Resting in Pieces somewhere in Singapore.....
9047 did slow it down quite a bit... but just can't concentrate today... so crash again... sianz...
Nothing broke.. just bent another motor shaft... now.. need to go shopping for shafts leow...
nic are you flying your P-51 with B gearbox and 9047? Will it be too slow that you have to keep at 75% and above in the speed. Well done now you already able to fly your warbird solo with only minor crash. Next will be full flying section without crash. BTW do you use the wheels.
Originally posted by loyn
nic are you flying your P-51 with B gearbox and 9047? Will it be too slow that you have to keep at 75% and above in the speed. Well done now you already able to fly your warbird solo with only minor crash.
Thanks for the compliments.. but I wouldn't call that flying since it is in the air less than 30 sec. I didn't have the chance to properly trim the bird :L
Yes.. I do find it too slow for the P51, the speed is like my ES with 400+D and 1043. But ES flew well while P51 responses became poor.
I intend to pop back the 9050 and use more trottle management. :-/
Next will be full flying section without crash. BTW do you use the wheels.
For the time being.. yes I am using it, since I think it looks cool with the painted wheels (cheapo $2 paint... :L) But I intend to take it out since my landings are rather poor, and can manage better with belly land.
Actually I am seriously thinking of taking a step back and get either a ES or FunnyPark.
Don't blame yourself for the bad landings with U/C if you are flying over grass. it takes a golf course of a grass for proper landings with the gws wheels.
Nic, give some thot to 1080 w lower gearing :)
I prefer more room for recovery when plane stall or in difficult position. I am not a speed freak :D
Wish you luck. Moving a step back isnt a bad idea at all.
Cheers
Mike
Originally posted by HZM
I am not a speed freak :D
You kinda make me feel like a Grandpa driving a mini (hogging the freeway) when I know you got a brushless setup yet saying you ain't a speed freak.....
:ha: :ha: :L
Yup if BL setup is not speedy then my stock P-51 will be a warbird trainer :L
Less than 30s ...... I think that is common for first hand warbird flyer without any flying experience. John has try his hand on his own spitfire on Tue ...... air time < 10s before gravity takes over :( It is just too sensitive for him to handle ..... It broke in 2 at the tail section ..... a broken prop...... well should be able to put it back for the Sunday funfly, I think :confuse: Should have take off for him and let him take over in mid air, my misstake :(
Tried to let him fly my home made slowstick but the wind is too strong for it. Looks like the weather is turing and is bad for electric flyer.
So.. what's a good in between plane before heading to a warbird?
ES->?->P51
Aaaa....... in the old days the Estarter is considered as high wing so the running sequence should be as follow:
1) high wing - 3 or 4 chr
2) shoulder wing
3) Low wing sport
4) Low wing aerobatic or scale model
So you can see there is several steps before going for small scale model plane like the warbird. On the other hand, it is also very much depends on individual. Some will able to pick up much faster than other hence to bypass the middle steps. It is very much up to you. But GWS do not provide the in between models.
You can build your own low wing sport plane if you want too, it is not that difficult after all. Especially with all the existing electronic and material available in the market. :) Need any help give me a call, willing to help :D As I want to test out some concept but don't want to keep too many planes :L
Originally posted by loyn
1) high wing - 3 or 4 chr
2) shoulder wing
3) Low wing sport
4) Low wing aerobatic or scale model
Yeah.. I know about these... the only in between plane is actually Funny Park... that's why I had skip it...
Well, I definitely will like to learn how to make SPAD foamies..... I don't have the luxury of time in the evenings/weekends... maybe in Nov onwards... I will have ample time on weekdays... too much in fact..
try the formosa if you are comfortable with ailerons. it's a better flyer than p51 and can handle lower cruising speeds as well. keep the throws low and use expos on all your controls but only if you are COMFORTABLE with ailerons.
I am very comfortable with ailerons...my ES lost its rudder after a few crashes. :L
Rotor is too ex.. and Pips has no stock.. so think I will wait.
If you can't wait, you can go for the "infamous" shop~~
But come again famosa is not diff to fly .... it glide very well and not fast as in stock condition. For warbird, it diff bcos it does not glide well and the response is not so predictable :(
Any tot of having the P51 setup and test flight by others before u take over? U can fly the E starter and should be able to fly the warbird.
Guys, remember frank's fren Jackson? He flew the E starter himself and later move on to zero fighter, tho crash on landing but still manageable.
Mike
Saw the formosa fly by Joe at Bishan. It looks very stable in flight but again he made everything stable in the air :L
Formosa sounds goods to me too, waiting for pips stock as he is the cheapest in town and I am looking of one without the power system. On the other hand, Joe may able to help getting form the .......ChampXXXX :S he side is as cheap as pips..... He don't mine helping to get it from him..... So if is cheap and only a kit (no electronic) so not be a problem..... anyway see first. Will keep flying my P-51 as started to enjoy it. :lip:
nic want to fly my home made slow stick? anyway is not too slow with only rudder control. Just like to get some feedback on its performance especially from some beginner ..... sorry you may not be a beginner any more :D
I move on to brushless maninly bcos of maintenance free. The cost of the himark is remarkable. I throw in the hacker bcos its sitting there doing nothing :D
I was being physco by Ammo... :) do some math and feel the brushless is more worth while long run :D Lame excuses? :D
Mike
Yup good point on mike's advice.
formosa flies well even without prop running.
warbirds drop like an expensive egg when you cut throttle.
Loyn, anyway we can setup a set of buddy box? How come I don get a chance to test yr homemade plane? :D
Let me know in case u guys flying weekdays, want to join :)
Mike
Super-Hornet
16-09-2004, 12:09 PM
Hi all
I think the solution for those beginner crash is to use Buddy/Trainner cable.
Super-Hornet
i fly everyday but in yishun.
I will be a begginer when I handle any planes with only rudder control...
Nay.. I don't want to risk crashing anyone's plane except my own... :L
Yup.. I didn't want to get from rotor because they didn't have SG version while I have got motors sitting around at home.
The last I asked Mr Philip some weeks back, he says his stock is coming this month.
erm, end of this month if i didn't hear wrongly.
Originally posted by HZM
Loyn, anyway we can setup a set of buddy box? How come I don get a chance to test yr homemade plane? :D
Let me know in case u guys flying weekdays, want to join :)
Mike
I fly almost every weekday at either Tampines/Pasir Ris/MS.. but at 4-5:15pm
Originally posted by ammo
erm, end of this month if i didn't hear wrongly.
yeah.. end of the month... (still this month right?) hehehe
Mike you wouldn't like it ........ just too sloooooow for you ...... only powered by an IPS not some hot BL motor :D
Is a good idea to setup a buddy box for our own ppl, but who has the Txs with this capability ...... not my as mine is just too old without such function..... So anybody wanted to do that??? :lip:
I only fly at the west during weekday....
Can wait ...... as now or end of the month does not make any diff no more servo and Rx spare for new model :(
Super-Hornet
16-09-2004, 12:39 PM
Hi all
I might able to make trainner cable only for Futaba 9xHP TX only. It will take some time because I do not want to waste time hunting and spending money on the Futaba connector. I will try to create my own connector.
If anyone of u do have such cable, it will be better.
Super-Hornet
Time vs money...
ask the beginners who want to get training to share for the price of the buddy cord, it's only fair that way
Originally posted by Super-Hornet
Hi all
I might able to make trainner cable only for Futaba 9xHP TX only. It will take some time because I do not want to waste time hunting and spending money on the Futaba connector. I will try to create my own connector.
If anyone of u do have such cable, it will be better.
Super-Hornet
Beware: some brands of training cords have a pcb board in them. so no point trying to duplicate.
not sure for futaba but it applies to mpx
I am out..... knows nuts about this cable staff..... :S
I am only able to help if building simple trainner is an issue :D
S.hornet still interested in building one of this slowstick ? :lip:
loyn if u free and got spare gears, try building the bird-dog, you'll be very pleased with how well it flies with a 2 hours build.
I had flew several plane, those w aeliron + rudder, those w rudder only and those w aeliron only etc.....
Seriously speaking, I would say if someone can fly a rudder only plane, I don see why he cant fly a aeliron only plane. :freak: When I flew rudder only plane, I make sure the rudder is hook up on my aileron channel.
Currently, when I am flying my spitfire, Frank had advised coordinating the turn w rudder + aeliron to smooth it.
Mike
Well aeliron alone will not turn the plane, but help to initiate a turn. Once the plane start to go into a roll, with the help of the elevator will make the plane to ture. That is how you turn a plane with only aeliron and elevator. This is because when the plane roll, the change in the angle that part of the reaction force from the elevator act as a rudder.
Rudder is design for turning the plane along its Z axis, that is why rudder + aeliron make a smooth turn.
Super-Hornet
16-09-2004, 03:02 PM
Hi ammo
The information that I gather appears to be the Futaba only uses wire to communicate.
What they do is that it transfer the Trainee PWM signal to the Trainer TX. The Trainer TX just use that signal to TX. When Trainer take over, it just cut off/ignore the trainee signal and use its own signal.
BTW... the training/buddy plug behind Futaba 9xHP consist of Ground, Signal In, Signal Out, -ve, +ve (Power) and +ve Battery power Switch.
Super-Hornet
Rudder only models are relying on the dihedral angle to bank and yaw, thus with the elevator results in a "turn". It is however impossible for models with dihedral to have the same responsiveness as flat wing aileron models.
Banking alone will not give you a proper turn, instead you will experience adverse yaw which will cause a lot of drag and is not an efficient way to change directions. High drag and loss of speed/requirement of higher power input to maintain altitude.
It is best to coordinate rudder with ailerons to prevent "skidding" of plane on intended turning line. try banking with aileron and then give just enough rudder to turn the plane. the aileron should only be used to initiate and maintain the bank angle. the rudder guides it thru properly. at turns with bank angles less than 90 degrees, rudder is required to make a "perfect" turn, as we know it's impossible to get perfect turns, but with practise we can get close to that.
Most flyers do not really use the rudder once they fly ailerons, even when it's available. some will just mix rudd-ail. you should try to maximise the use of your rudder so you have full control of the plane in all axis.
The best way to train your left thumb is to fly a profile 3d plane. it will show you exactly how poor just ail and ele turns are. you will need to incoorperate rudder to get smooth turns. Just build a simple 3dx and give it a try. nobody says you must fly 3d on it, just sports flying. you will find that your rudder control will improve tremendously over a short time.
Hey Loyn..... Formosa SG? :sneaky: :sneaky: :D
http://www.rcflying.biz/GWSElectricPlanes.htm
Suc@% F@#king Hell price go up by $5 :mad: :fire: This is not eggs right ????? why they they increase their price within few weeks
OK on hold not formosa for me :(
guess it is demand and supply... He has to account for delivery too.
if you look at the prices carefully... some are more expensive than rotor... (Especially if you are rotor's member) :rolleyes:
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